An Augment guide for those who always want more *SPOILERS*
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Jul 31, 2008 9:44 pm GMT
Basically the big change is Twincast Ultima over Darkness Jump for limit break choice.
So, is a Twin Ultima really that much superior to double holy + Cecil's attack + Kain's Jump?
Even if you get slightly better damage with Ultima, you lose a lot of flexibility. Adrenaline Kain jumping is at less of a risk. Rosa should be on support duty from the beginning of the fight, so you lose a few turns to that. It makes jumping less enticing, which reduces the viability of Pheonix, leading to more issues. That's assuming you ever actually GET Ultima to cast.
Plus you have to have Twincast, Adrenaline, Fast Talker on Cecil for that set-up. That means dropping the damage sponge duties on Edge, who doesn't have the evasion of a shield to rely on.
I'm keeping my Limit Breaks till the last playthrough to experiment, but I'm still unconvinced.
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3952-6933-9585 Brawl
Aug 1, 2008 12:46 am GMT
SBAllen!? say something?! haha been following his guide so far so not sure whose to follow, im on the part when i just got tsunami..
Aug 1, 2008 1:58 am GMT
Does Rydia's level-up chart have any differences? Because it's not on there.
Anyway, excellent new chart.
Aug 1, 2008 10:33 am GMT
Does Rydia's level-up chart have any differences? Because it's not on there.
Ooh, good catch. I cut it off accidentally.
Rydia: Str Spd Sta Int Spi Lvl
Limit Break 29 29 29 29 29 71-99
Inferno 29 29 29 0 0 71-99
Auto-Potion 0 0 29 0 0 71-99
Summon Magic 0 0 0 16 16 71-86
Reach 0 8 0 0 0 87-94
Attack 5 0 0 0 0 95-99
Default 36 33 34 72 54
Total 99 99 121 117 99
Summary: Just take the one in SBAllen's guide, but use Reach instead of Bardsong.
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:{//=|ROYAL DEFENDER OF NABOO|=\\}:
REALLY - adv. Apparently.
Aug 1, 2008 11:04 am GMT
So, is a Twin Ultima really that much superior to double holy + Cecil's attack + Kain's Jump?
99999 (ultima) + 9999 (Kain's jump)
vs.
15000 (holy x2) + 9999 (Cecil's darkness attack) + Kain's jump
Unless you're focusing Kain's jumps to the point where he does 85000+ damage, yes, Ultima does a lot more damage. And since 3x Focus eats more time than a Twincast...
Even if you get slightly better damage with Ultima, you lose a lot of flexibility. Adrenaline Kain jumping is at less of a risk. Rosa should be on support duty from the beginning of the fight, so you lose a few turns to that. It makes jumping less enticing, which reduces the viability of Pheonix, leading to more issues.
Keep in mind, though, that Cecil's Attack is faster than Kain's Jump. If you factor in damage from Counter, Cecil is about as good as Kain anyway. but Cecil also has the potential for an Ultima setup, whereas Kain only has 3x Focus to fall back on.
That's assuming you ever actually GET Ultima to cast.
It's apparently the most common result by far. The other options are apparently pretty rare if you do it right,
Plus you have to have Twincast, Adrenaline, Fast Talker on Cecil for that set-up. That means dropping the damage sponge duties on Edge, who doesn't have the evasion of a shield to rely on.
At high enough levels and max stats, Adrenaline isn't necessary against anything but maybe the two bonus bosses. If I knew their stats, I'd know for sure. But bare minimum damage against a maxed out enemy without Adrenaline is still in the mid 60000s.
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:{//=|ROYAL DEFENDER OF NABOO|=\\}:
REALLY - adv. Apparently.
Aug 1, 2008 5:26 pm GMT
Thanks for the augment list. I'm considering following yours, but I already gave Tsunami to Tellah, so no Tsunami for Cecil. I'm at Zot right now, right before Tellah goes bye bye, so what should I give him? Give him Bluff and the spare Twincast to Cid, so 1 less augment to Cid (I'm thinking of keeping a bardsong)? How's that sound?
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Shin Megami, Xenosaga, Tales, Ace Attorney, Megaman Zero/ZX rock!
Sakura Taisen Forever
Aug 1, 2008 6:49 pm GMT
Thanks for the augment list. I'm considering following yours, but I already gave Tsunami to Tellah, so no Tsunami for Cecil. I'm at Zot right now, right before Tellah goes bye bye, so what should I give him? Give him Bluff and the spare Twincast to Cid, so 1 less augment to Cid (I'm thinking of keeping a bardsong)? How's that sound?
I really hate the idea of Twincast on Cid. In fact, that's the reason I decided that Cid needed two augments in his first playthrough, so I could make one of them Gil Farmer. If he only took one, it was either going to be (at the time) a Bluff or a Twincast that he couldn't use, so he could use the second useless Gil Farmer. The idea of stealing one augment from Yang and letting me keep that third Bardsong in the process was brilliant.
I'd say to just follow the small update I posted, but use the extra Twincast on Yang. So it'll be
Tellah - Tsunami, Bluff
Cid - Gil Farmer, Last Stand
Yang - Recall, Twincast
You'll end up with a worthless Gil Farmer for anyone you like in playthrough three and an extra Brace to give back to Rydia or anyone else you like. Almost as good, really, since Tsunami on Cecil is pretty minor anyway.
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:{//=|ROYAL DEFENDER OF NABOO|=\\}:
REALLY - adv. Apparently.
Aug 2, 2008 6:22 am GMT
I'll post your list again with the updates put in place for others to just copy and print out. Pretty sure I got it all right, but let me know if I missed something so I can delete this post:
First Playthrough:
!Auto-Potion: Give to Porom.
!Item Lore: Give to Palom.
-Counter: Give to Cecil.
!Curse: Give to Palom.
*Tsunami: Give to Edge.
*!Twincast (x2): Give to Cecil and Tellah.
!Bluff: Give to Tellah.
-Cry: Give to Kain.
*Dualcast: Give to Rosa.
!Gil Farmer: Give to Cid.
!Bardsong: Give to Rosa.
-Salve: Not earned on first playthrough.
-Hide: Not earned on first playthrough.
!Recall: Give to Yang.
!Last Stand: Give to Cid.
-Fast Talker: Give to Rydia.
*Whirlwind: Give to Edge.
-Draw Attacks: Give to Cecil.
-Reach: Give to Edge.
!Analyze: Give to FuSoYa.
-Adrenaline: Give to Cecil.
-Upgrade: Give to Kain.
!MP+50%: Give to FuSoYa.
*Inferno: Give to Rosa.
-Darkness: Give to Cecil.
-Focus: Give to Cecil.
-Kick: Give to Cecil.
-Brace: Not earned on first playthrough.
!Level Lust: Give to NO ONE.
!HP+50%: Give to NO ONE.
-Piercing Magic: Give to Rosa.
-Bless: Give to Edge.
-Omnicasting: Give to Rosa.
*Phoenix: Give to Kain.
-Treasure Hunter: Give to Cecil.
-Eye Gouge: Give to Rosa.
*???'s Love: Give to Kain.
-Safe Travel: Give to Cecil.
Second Playthrough:
*Limit Break: Give to Cecil.
!HP+50%: Carried over from first playthrough. Give to Edward.
!Level Lust: Carried over from first playthrough. Give to Edward.
-Auto-Potion: Give to Rydia.
-Item Lore: Give to Edge.
-Counter: Give to Edge.
-Curse: Give to Edge.
-Tsunami: Give to Cecil.
*Twincast (x2): Give to Kain and Rosa.
-Bluff: Give to Rydia.
-Cry: Give to Rosa.
-Dualcast: Give to Rydia.
!Gil Farmer: Give to Yang.
-Bardsong: Give to Edge.
-Salve: Give to Edge.
-Hide: Give to Edge.
-Recall: Give to Rosa.
*Last Stand: Give to Edge.
-Fast Talker: Give to Rosa.
*Whirlwind: Give to Rosa.
-Draw Attacks: Give to Edge.
*Reach: Give to Cecil.
-Analyze: Give to Cecil.
-Adrenaline: Give to Rydia.
-Upgrade: Give to Cecil.
-MP+50%: Give to Rydia.
-Inferno: Give to Rydia.
-Darkness: Give to Rydia.
-Focus: Give to Rydia.
-Kick: Give to Edge.
-Brace: Give to Cecil.
-Level Lust: Give to Cecil.
-HP+50%: Give to Rosa.
-Piercing Magic: Give to Rydia.
-Bless: Give to Rosa.
-Omnicasting: Give to Rydia.
-Phoenix: Give to Rydia.
Third Playthrough:
-Limit Break: Give to Rydia.
-Auto-Potion: Give to Rosa.
-Item Lore: Give to Kain.
-Counter: Give to Rydia.
-Curse: Give to Cecil.
*Tsunami: Give to Rosa.
-Twincast (x2): Give to Edge and Rydia.
-Bluff: Give to Edge.
-Cry: Give to Rydia.
-Dualcast: Give to Edge.
-Gil Farmer: Give to Cecil.
-Bardsong: Give to Kain.
-Salve: Give to Kain.
-Hide: Give to Rosa.
-Recall: Give to Kain.
-Last Stand: Give to Rosa.
-Fast Talker: Give to Cecil.
*Whirlwind: Give to Kain.
-Draw Attacks: Give to Rydia.
-Reach: Give to Rydia.
-Analyze: Give to Edge.
-Adrenaline: Give to Edge.
-Upgrade: Give to Rydia.
-MP+50%: Give to Rosa.
-Inferno: Give to Kain.
-Darkness: Give to Kain.
-Focus: Give to Edge.
-Kick: Give to Kain.
-Brace: Give to Rosa.
-Level Lust: Give to Rosa.
-HP+50%: Give to Rydia.
-Piercing Magic: Give to Cecil.
-Bless: Give to Kain.
*Omnicasting: Give to Cecil.
*Phoenix: Give to Edge.
- = Free to be moved or removed
! = Augment given to a character outside of the final party
* = Augment necessary for max stats
Thanks for the suggestions.
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Shin Megami, Xenosaga, Tales, Ace Attorney, Megaman Zero/ZX rock!
Sakura Taisen Forever
Aug 2, 2008 8:05 am GMT
Another alteration suggestion - give Inferno to Edge instead of Rosa.
Inferno is actually pretty nice. Not only does it give Edge a pretty powerful multi-target, but with Adamant Armors/Curse Rings on everyone, he can use it to heal everyone for around 1k.
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3952-6933-9585 Brawl
Aug 2, 2008 8:47 am GMT
Another alteration suggestion - give Inferno to Edge instead of Rosa.
Not possible. Rosa needs it to reach max stats. Rydia too, although I forgot to * it. You could take Kain's if you want, though.
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:{//=|ROYAL DEFENDER OF NABOO|=\\}:
REALLY - adv. Apparently.
Aug 2, 2008 5:58 pm GMT
Bump, because it offers a decent alternative...
Aug 2, 2008 6:21 pm GMT
Not to demean you in any way... but isn't this the same guide but less detailed than SBAllen's? (note I didn't read the whole thing but this seems vastly familiar with less details). If my aside is correct what is the point of this guide?
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GT: Souless Katana
"What the **** have you done lately?"-Wesley Gibson
Aug 2, 2008 6:29 pm GMT
Not to demean you in any way... but isn't this the same guide but less detailed than SBAllen's?
The only way it's "less detailed" is that I don't tell people where to get the Augments. And I give a lot more detail as to why certain augments are where they are. But no, it's not the same placement. For example, SBAllen gives Tellah Bardsong and Tsunami. I give him Twincast and Bluff. It results in an extra Bardsong and Tsunami for your final party. And the major change is Limit Break on Cecil instead of Kain, because their damage outputs are normally similar, but Cecil has the potential for a much faster 99999 damage while Twincasting Ultima with Rosa.
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:{//=|ROYAL DEFENDER OF NABOO|=\\}:
REALLY - adv. Apparently.
Aug 3, 2008 8:41 am GMT
Bump
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3952-6933-9585 Brawl
Aug 3, 2008 7:28 pm GMT
Oh ok thanks Gau.
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GT: Souless Katana
"What the **** have you done lately?"-Wesley Gibson
Aug 3, 2008 9:36 pm GMT
It's apparently the most common result by far. The other options are apparently pretty rare if you do it right,
I'm still gonna leave a file at level 70 on the third playthrough with 2 limit breaks left (just so I can go back to correct the leveling and augments,) but I've done a little experimenting.
I twincasted with Cecil and Rosa 6 times, didn't get a single Ultima. This was with 4 people in the party (no Kain) so perhaps that was where the problem came from. Otherwise, I'm leaning towards Limit Break Kain because his damage is guaranteed.
I also want to play around with Inferno Edge a little more. Gives him a pretty strong AoE (more so than Ninjitsu) and a decent heal with Adamant/Curse Rings. He is support after-all.
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3952-6933-9585 Brawl
Aug 4, 2008 12:59 am GMT
tag
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Did I say that, or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me??
Aug 4, 2008 1:37 am GMT
tag and thanks
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God created man in his own image. And man, being a gentleman, returned the favor
Aug 4, 2008 2:41 pm GMT
Okay, after some more testing, I'm gonna have to say Twin Cast is garbage.
Without Adrenaline, Twin Cast Ultima was doing ~25000 to Geryon (this is with 87 INT/SPR for both Cecil and Rosa, at level 99.) The reason that Ultima can get to the 99999 cap is because of double Adrenaline, but I'm not putting Rosa in that range just for a little extra damage.
Out of 10 casts, I got 1 Ultima, the rest were Pyroblast (which hit for about 5k.) This is the real killer. If it were guaranteed, I would endure the crazy adrenaline set-ups. But it isn't, so it's not worth it.
In comparison, Rosa's Love (198 Onion Sword + 99 Whyt Battle) was doing ~26k with Darkness, and 52k with Darkness and a single focus. Rosa's Holy was still doing about 6k, so you could get in 12k from Double Cast Holy + 2 Rosa's Loves in the same time span, for WAY more damage.
The one problem with Rosa's Love and Limit Break on Cecil is easily fixable - Kain loses one and has to make adjustments for leveling. Here's the alteration I made.
Tsunami 71-99
Whirlwind 71-99
Piercing Magic 71-99
Inferno 71-87
Pheonix 87-99
That caps him again. Piercing Magic is wasted on Cecil, he doesn't even use his White Magic enough to worry about reflect.
Not everyone is gonna bother getting 99 with Rosa's Love, but it is pretty invaluable once it gets there.
Anyways, sorry for trampling over your thread so much, I've got my party in order so I'll stop bothering ya
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3952-6933-9585 Brawl
Aug 4, 2008 3:54 pm GMT
bump
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