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Is there any precedent for a lawsuit by fans against a pub/dev?

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  • Level 37
    Heiankyo Alien
    Posts: 1352
    Oct 23, 2010 10:42 pm GMT
    for putting out and selling a broken game?

    Seems like pretty clear cut fraud, amongst other things.
    for putting out and selling a broken game? Seems like pretty clear cut fraud, amongst other things.
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  • Level 43
    Sword of Sodan
    Posts: 10541
    Oct 25, 2010 7:23 pm GMT
    I've never heard of one. What game is it?

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    I've never heard of one. What game is it?
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  • Level 37
    Heiankyo Alien
    Posts: 1352
    Oct 26, 2010 8:33 am GMT
    A game released in a state that would put MS, Google, Adobe, etc. out of business if they released their flagship software in it.

    Seems like a pretty big double standard. Selling a product you know is broken/defective typically gets you in all kinds of hot water.
    A game released in a state that would put MS, Google, Adobe, etc. out of business if they released their flagship software in it. Seems like a pretty big double standard. Selling a product you know is broken/defective typically gets you in all kinds of hot water.
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  • Level 63
    Big Smoke
    Posts: 2184
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    Oct 26, 2010 10:58 am GMT
    Good question. Nothing springs to mind, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. The closest I can think of is some 360 owners suing MS for the hardware updates bricking their consoles.
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    Good question. Nothing springs to mind, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. The closest I can think of is some 360 owners suing MS for the hardware updates bricking their consoles.
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  • Level 53
    Zenny
    Posts: 49372
    Oct 26, 2010 2:18 pm GMT
    I think even showing a "good faith effort" to release a non-broken game would probably keep a publisher/studio out of trouble, even moreso in our modern age of free patches to games.
    I think even showing a "good faith effort" to release a non-broken game would probably keep a publisher/studio out of trouble, even moreso in our modern age of free patches to games.
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  • Level 37
    Heiankyo Alien
    Posts: 1352
    Oct 26, 2010 2:57 pm GMT
    Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo all fine publishers when they need to issue patches, as far as I know. It's supposed to encourage them to actually have reasonable QA practices.

    Furthermore the whole "well there are free patches" argument isn't really applicable anyway, they're selling the data on the disc, not additional data you need to download. For example- you can bet if Office 2010 ships and it irreparably corrupts a bunch of businesses' spreadsheets and whatnot there would be massive blowback, even if MS promised a patch.

    Why are publishers allowed to knowingly sell broken games? There is no "warning: game has lots of bugs we may or may not fix some day" disclaimer (not even in the EULA, I've checked).
    Edited on Oct 26, 2010 2:59 pm GMT Edited 2 total times.
    Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo all fine publishers when they need to issue patches, as far as I know. It's supposed to encourage them to actually have reasonable QA practices. Furthermore the whole "well there are free patches" argument isn't really applicable anyway, they're selling the data on the disc, not additional data you need to download. For example- you can bet if Office 2010 ships and it irreparably corrupts a bunch of businesses' spreadsheets and whatnot there would be massive blowback, even if MS promised a patch. Why are publishers allowed to knowingly sell broken games? There is no "warning: game has lots of bugs we may or may not fix some day" disclaimer (not even in the EULA, I've checked).
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  • Level 65
    You're Winner !
    Posts: 4437
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    Oct 29, 2010 12:21 pm GMT

    End-user license agreements are non-negotiable and essentially represent computer software as an as-is product. Consumers are limited to compensation of the price of the product and no more, and publishers and developers are held to a "best possible effort" standard to reproduce and fix bugs. According to the courts, digital software is not a tangible "product," and therefore most liability laws are not applicable. I know the American Law Institute has tried to establish more stringent guidelines, but those would only be interpretive suggestions for judges, not law.

    In other words, if you tried to sue Bethesda (to offer an example) for shipping a buggy game, you couldn't get anywhere. Companies that have sued software vendors in the past for bugs that caused material loss haven't gotten anywhere either, even when they've lost millions of dollars due to bugs that interfered with their business practices. It sucks indeed. Even if we had a fighting chance, many gamers are so ultraforgiving of game-breaking bugs that I doubt they'd be so inclined. Consider Fallout: New Vegas; I'm still surprised that there hasn't been an industry-wide outcry against such a flawed product. I thought I'd be one of the kinder critics, so I was shocked when there was so much unfettered praise heaped upon it.

    End-user license agreements are non-negotiable and essentially represent computer software as an as-is product. Consumers are limited to compensation of the price of the product and no more, and publishers and developers are held to a "best possible effort" standard to reproduce and fix bugs. According to the courts, digital software is not a tangible "product," and therefore most liability laws are not applicable. I know the American Law Institute has tried to establish more stringent guidelines, but those would only be interpretive suggestions for judges, not law.

    In other words, if you tried to sue Bethesda (to offer an example) for shipping a buggy game, you couldn't get anywhere. Companies that have sued software vendors in the past for bugs that caused material loss haven't gotten anywhere either, even when they've lost millions of dollars due to bugs that interfered with their business practices. It sucks indeed. Even if we had a fighting chance, many gamers are so ultraforgiving of game-breaking bugs that I doubt they'd be so inclined. Consider Fallout: New Vegas; I'm still surprised that there hasn't been an industry-wide outcry against such a flawed product. I thought I'd be one of the kinder critics, so I was shocked when there was so much unfettered praise heaped upon it.

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  • Level 63
    Big Smoke
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    Oct 31, 2010 2:43 am GMT

    it is amazing - I have noticed that I am one of the few who have resisted New Vegas

    it is amazing - I have noticed that I am one of the few who have resisted New Vegas

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  • Level 37
    Heiankyo Alien
    Posts: 1352
    Oct 31, 2010 10:52 am GMT
    It's amazing, you'd think there would be some kind of consumer protection in the law. We've clearly bought a misrepresented product - how is this not fraud? I can't imagine this flying in any other industry, even other parts of the software industry.
    It's amazing, you'd think there would be some kind of consumer protection in the law. We've clearly bought a misrepresented product - how is this not fraud? I can't imagine this flying in any other industry, even other parts of the software industry.
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  • Level 46
    Mutoid Man
    Posts: 12939
    Nov 3, 2010 2:50 pm GMT

    Never heard of such a thing being done. Closest I can think of is the refunds some people got from amazon after playstation removed the other OS function

    Never heard of such a thing being done. Closest I can think of is the refunds some people got from amazon after playstation removed the other OS function

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  • Level 53
    Zenny
    Posts: 49372
    Nov 6, 2010 12:09 pm GMT
    Actually, come to think of it, for it to be fraud, wouldn't they have to make the claim that they were selling a bug-free product?
    Actually, come to think of it, for it to be fraud, wouldn't they have to make the claim that they were selling a bug-free product?
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  • Level 37
    Heiankyo Alien
    Posts: 1352
    Nov 7, 2010 7:39 am GMT
    They claim to be selling a working product.
    They claim to be selling a working product.
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  • Level 53
    Zenny
    Posts: 49372
    Nov 9, 2010 9:13 am GMT
    I've never seen that claim explicitly made for any game.
    I've never seen that claim explicitly made for any game.
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