Forums › Mass Effect 3 Forum › Mass Effect 3 PC Forum › You know what's sad?

You know what's sad?

« prev next »

Page:

This topic is now read-only on GameSpot.
To post new messages, please visit GameFAQs and log in using the same email and password that you use on GameSpot.

MachEvolution

Apr 23, 2012 12:19 pm GMT
The best SMG in this game is actually a Pistol, the N7 Eagle. Now I don't have the geth SMG yet but from what I hear it's nearly useless if you aren't using a geth. As far as all the other SMGs go though, the N7 Eagle is the overall best. Good accuracy, good power, good fire-rate(automatic), good clip-size with plenty of reserve ammo, lighter than a few SMGs; I slapped a Extended Barrel mod and Armor-Piercing mod on it and it's absolutely amazing.

What are your thoughts? Confirm/Deny?
Dangaard

Apr 23, 2012 12:22 pm GMT
For now, confirm. Unfortunately unless you can eventually upgrade your Eagle further, it's just as heavy as a Carnifex X, and why you would carry an Eagle over a Carnifex X if you have it is beyond me. Until lightweight mods work on SMGs other than the Geth SMGs, there is little to no reason to carry one. Unless you're playing on bronze with a turian soldier with extended clip and heat sink for luls.
---
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Looked_gf

Apr 23, 2012 12:26 pm GMT
It is funny
---
http://imgh.us/goodmorning.gif
goonermx

Apr 23, 2012 12:35 pm GMT
I slapped a Extended Barrel mod and Armor-Piercing mod on it and it's absolutely amazing.

And as a bonus you can't even put an AP mod on an SMG. Though a lighter-materials mod for pistols would be handy in some cases.
Chazore

Apr 23, 2012 12:43 pm GMT
Dangaard posted...
For now, confirm. Unfortunately unless you can eventually upgrade your Eagle further, it's just as heavy as a Carnifex X, and why you would carry an Eagle over a Carnifex X if you have it is beyond me. Until lightweight mods work on SMGs other than the Geth SMGs, there is little to no reason to carry one. Unless you're playing on bronze with a turian soldier with extended clip and heat sink for luls.

Enlighten me about the lightweight mods for SMGs because it all appears to work fine for me, unless I'm overlooking something.
SushiSquid

Apr 23, 2012 1:07 pm GMT
I don't like the Eagle because its recoil is way too heavy, but I will agree it's still better than pretty much any SMG. It's a good weapon for a fairly low weight, but I prefer something that doesn't kick like a horse.
SKA_

Apr 23, 2012 1:08 pm GMT
it shows it is working when you are on the weapon equip screen, but in game it is not triggering. this is only for MP though, last i heard the mod still works perfectly fine SP
---
it's not easy being this awesome and modest
Dangaard

Apr 23, 2012 1:47 pm GMT
The recoil on the Eagle is ok when you're in cover. Low enough that you can easily compensate for vertical recoil by slowly dragging the mouse down.

If you want to see the lightweight mod not working, try the following:
Equip an SMG without the lightweight mod on. Preferably a heavier one. Go look in your power screen a select a power. Take note of the cooldown time. Go back to the equip screen and place a lightweight mod on the SMG. Go back to your power screen. Unless the SMG you equipped was the Geth Plasma SMG, your power cooldown time will not have decreased, despite your cooldown bonus being changed in your equip screen.
---
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
grand_commander

Apr 23, 2012 1:50 pm GMT
For all the mentions the ultralight materials bug gets online, I'm surprised to see so many people with such high N7 levels using the piece of equipment. Bioware really needs to remove the ability to equip it to weapons it won't work on—not that SMGs are too awesome even with two upgrade slots rather than one.
Dangaard

Apr 23, 2012 1:54 pm GMT
The majority of players, including the ones that spend a lot of time on the game, do not involve themselves with the game outside of playing it, so they don't see anything other than what is shown to them in game and through word of mouth. Maybe the Bioware Blog as well.

What you see online in communities and forums is the minority, regardless of how vocal they are.
---
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Gamemako

Apr 23, 2012 3:13 pm GMT
Look, don't get me wrong. SMGs are awful, awful weapons. But seriously, the N7 Eagle has some of the worst DPS in the game. It is actually considerably worse than the Tempest for DPS with the exception of use against armor, and it's much worse than the Hurricane in every regard (putting out less than half the DPS).

You should never use an Eagle for any reason. Ever, period. It's an unholy-bad weapon.

TL;DR, denied.
---
One can only wonder at how such idiocy invariably comes to power.
ESTIMATE THE CATACLYSM. CALCULATE THE APOCALYPSE.
MachEvolution

Apr 23, 2012 3:14 pm GMT
Yeah, the N7 is at terrible Pistol, but it's the best SMG there is. I spent some time wondering what purpose the N7 Eagle might have as it seemed to be useless compare to other Pistol options, but then recently I set up my Salarian Engineer to use SMG's as they're more effective for how I play him, and after being unable to settle on which SMG worked best I remembered the N7 Eagle is an automatic, so I slapped that on and tried it out. Works great, even beat my first gold match with it.
Gamemako

Apr 23, 2012 3:47 pm GMT
MachEvolution posted...
Yeah, the N7 is at terrible Pistol, but it's the best SMG there is.

Gods, did you even read what I just wrote?

The N7 Eagle has fully half the DPS of a Tempest against shields, barriers, and health. The only advantage an N7 Eagle has over a Tempest is use against armor when coupled with a piercing mod, and even then, the Eagle is dealing 1/4th the DPS of other weapons.

When compared to the Hurricane, there is never, ever, ever a situation where the Eagle produces superior DPS. In fact, the Hurricane produces nearly 3 times the damage of the Eagle against armor (including the clip mod compared to the Eagle's penetration mod) and 3 times the damage against unarmored targets (not including the clip mod, which would increase the disparity). There is no situation that I would want an Eagle over a Hurricane, meaning that the Eagle is, in fact, not better than all SMGs.

Additionally but not related to the question of SMGs, there is no situation in which you would choose the Eagle over any other pistol at all. The Predator is a vastly-superior weapon, being lighter and far more damaging.
---
One can only wonder at how such idiocy invariably comes to power.
ESTIMATE THE CATACLYSM. CALCULATE THE APOCALYPSE.
timerider4

Apr 23, 2012 4:54 pm GMT
It's also funny how the Saber is a better sniper rifle than the Raptor.
---
"...Everytime I do it now I imagine the gnome screaming 'THE GNOME DOES NOT LIKE TO BE TOUCHED.'" - themagicpainman, on HL2 Ep.2's Little Rocket Man
MachEvolution

Apr 23, 2012 5:28 pm GMT
Now reason to be so rude, look at the time of my post compared to yours. Your post wasn't even up when I started my post, how then would I have been able to read it? Maybe you should calm down and not jump on peoples cases over things.

And I can't attest to all the DPS stuff, but I'm always more successful with my N7 Eagle than I have been with any of the other SMG's, including the Hurricane. The Hurricane does have good damage but it's accuracy is garbage along with stability being a complete joke. Shotguns have a longer effective distance than the Hurricane does.

I don't play the numbers game, I go by the results I see.

From: timerider4 | #014
It's also funny how the Saber is a better sniper rifle than the Raptor.

A lot of things are a better sniper rifles than the Raptor. Raptor is too heavy for what it offers(better off with Mattock). It's a cool weapon sure enough, but it's just not all that useful.
Gamemako

Apr 23, 2012 5:51 pm GMT
timerider4 posted...
It's also funny how the Saber is a better sniper rifle than the Raptor.

No credit to the Saber, though. The Raptor is just an embarrassment.

MachEvolution posted...
Now reason to be so rude, look at the time of my post compared to yours. Your post wasn't even up when I started my post, how then would I have been able to read it? Maybe you should calm down and not jump on peoples cases over things.

I apologize. Unsurprisingly, I read your message as a direct response to mine (hello egocentricity).

MachEvolution posted...
And I can't attest to all the DPS stuff, but I'm always more successful with my N7 Eagle than I have been with any of the other SMG's, including the Hurricane.

I honestly cannot imagine how. The DPS difference is pretty staggering. Unless you are having severe accuracy issues (understandable with the Hurricane, though you should not be using at long range regardless), the difference is night and day. In fact, the DPS on the Eagle is so bad that it's hard to see how you make ends of it. The Avenger, weak as it is, vastly outdamages the Eagle and is considerably more accurate.

MachEvolution posted...
The Hurricane does have good damage but it's accuracy is garbage along with stability being a complete joke. Shotguns have a longer effective distance than the Hurricane does.

Depends on the shotgun, but regardless, the accuracy of the Eagle is also garbage due to its huge recoil. Ultimately, neither is suitable for use beyond short range, but that is the role of the SMG in the Mass Effect series. For longer ranges, you can swap from that Hurricane to a Carnifex, but you can't swap from the Eagle because it has claimed that slot.

MachEvolution posted...
I don't play the numbers game, I go by the results I see.

Numbers don't lie. Experience is unreliable; you could only form a well-informed opinion with considerable testing in a controlled environment.
---
One can only wonder at how such idiocy invariably comes to power.
ESTIMATE THE CATACLYSM. CALCULATE THE APOCALYPSE.
SKA_

Apr 23, 2012 6:04 pm GMT
in a similar perspective, numbers dont always take environment and circumstances into account. DPS is just a bloated number. actual experience with game play will often be more reliable.
---
it's not easy being this awesome and modest
Gamemako

Apr 23, 2012 6:20 pm GMT
SKA_ posted...
in a similar perspective, numbers dont always take environment and circumstances into account. DPS is just a bloated number.

It is not bloated at all, but it can be misleading if you aren't careful to take into account the assumptions that were made to get it. In this case, we assume 100% accuracy, and that is generally unreasonable with any weapon; however, when making comparative judgments, we only have to care about relative accuracy rather than absolute (e.g. the Hurricane has to be 1/3rd as accurate as the Eagle to meet its DPS, and that is quite easy to do).

SKA_ posted...
actual experience with game play will often be more reliable.

Only partially true. Actual experience in a controlled environment with many replications and precise data recording? Yes. Actual experience running pugs? That won't do you a damn bit of good.
---
One can only wonder at how such idiocy invariably comes to power.
ESTIMATE THE CATACLYSM. CALCULATE THE APOCALYPSE.
SKA_

Apr 23, 2012 7:37 pm GMT
lets take tech bursts for instance, in all accounts far inferior to biotic explosions in terms of numbers. but why are tech burst builds actually better for GWG runs? the fact that overload and energy drain do so much damage to geth, the tech burst is just icing on the cake.

see numbers dont really take circumstances into account, when something seems bad on paper but is actually practically useful or superior. that is when experience through playing the game comes in.
---
it's not easy being this awesome and modest
MachEvolution

Apr 24, 2012 9:40 am GMT
The Hurricane is awful at distance, I agree, I don't usually use it on enemies that are out of melee range.

Maybe it's just the way the recoil works compared to the recoil on other guns, but I don't have a problem with accuracy on the N7 Eagle. Sure I'm not sniping with it, but it is very easy for me to compensate for the recoil it gives me.

There are factors beyond the numbers though. Like player's ability to compensate for recoil and their accuracy levels independent from the weapon. But in dozens of matches, I have consistently found that I do better with the N7 Eagle on my Salarian Engineer than any other weapon. I don't have hard numbers but I don't need them either. Sure, you can't judge effectiveness of something after a couple matches, but after dozens of matches with tons of different variables the results speak for themselves.