Nintendo fires back at Wii U criticisms

 @VenkmanPHD  @SS4kronos33 Good job,

Must've took you all night for that joke?  Or just maybe, MAYBE you're both hurt at the truth.

Take a moment...dig deep into your thoughts...and ask yourselves.

That answer beneath your conscious is unavoidable, little imp gremlins.

 @abHS4L88  @Araknie now i just wish they would push the graphics a little further.... i wouldn't have minded shelling out some more money for a higher end machine... or at least they should've given us the option .... wii U as it stands... and wii kick U ass version with next gen graphics... would easily throw my money at them, even upwards to $600

 @Araknie  

Agreed, Nintendo was partially at fault for not giving these games attention either, even if they didn't publish it they could've still be like, "With the Wii, you can play a variety of different titles from Mario to Monster Hunter and blah blah blah." 

They have seemed to learn their lesson this time with the Wii U, instantly giving a great deal of attention to games like ZombiU, Lego City Undercover, Black Ops 2, and even the ports of older games while holding back first party games and announcements so that Wii U users can focus on 3rd party games. 

 @VenkmanPHD  @abHS4L88  @a1450358509 I love how this thing started from a completely different statement that i did. So i will end it. The Wii had the majority of E rated games, it's true because Nintendo aims at fun before anything else and that, in the most part, brings us back to when we were childs. The games can be creative also in this way (Kirby's Epic Yarn) or difficult (DKCR) so it's just the type of fun, that is, but does not affect the gameplay. The did a great job in accepting good mature exclusives like Conduit 1/2, No More Heroes series (the second one, that is also the best one for me is still an exclusive and NMH3 is probably in works for Wii U as for Suda 51 said) Redsteel 1/2, Pandora's Tower, Monster Hunter Tri-, Dead Rising 1, Samurai Warriors 3, Project Zero 2 Wii Edition.

And they started to do with their second party teams or external co-ops some pretty mature exclusives themself like: Disaster: Day of Crisis, Sin and Punishment: Successor of the Skies, Metroid: Other M (i personally liked the game, but it's also pretty mature) and Xenoblade Chronicles. Nintendo was never for kids also. I will remember you that many gore franchises wuold not exist without the NES SNES era. Some pretty gory games or sexually arousing like Conkers are on the N64, Eternal Darkness, Geist and REs are on the Gamecube. 

The problem of the Wii is that it didn't have the "kind" of success needed to do more mature games. The Wii didn't have the public and it never had a clear direction of what to do with the system.

For me it's not Nintendo that needs to grew up, it was a problem of the Wii: a consoles without a direction.

 @Vylsith  @abHS4L88 thanks vylsith but there are still a few problems

1) this poll is 4 years old 

2) just to play devil's advocate, even if these stats were current, the latest data set from dec 2008 shows a 61.7 / 38.3 ratio for male kids to male adults and a 46.2 / 53.8 ratio for female kids to female adults.... guess what? if you average the genders, the ratio winds up at 53.95 / 46.05 for kids to adults... i'd say that's awfully close to a half / half breakdown.. so your argument about the wii appealing more to kids doesn't hold up so well. It seems pretty equal to me.

3) that said, if we do the same for xbox, the ratio ends up at 37.4 / 62.6... and for ps3... 31.25 / 68.75... now that's a bit more of a distinction so i will concede to you that with these two consoles, there is an apparent bent towards appealing "more" to an older crowd... (but we should not forget that 37.4 and 31.25 is not a small number either... so my point that kids also enjoy these consoles still stands)

what's my point? the wii appeals equally to adults and children... according to your stats.

i'm also convinced that this trend will only be bolstered further with the wii u but only time will tell 

 @abHS4L88 Doesn't look like it, but disagreement isn't always a bad thing.  I like getting other opinions about things, and debate is always healthy so long as it remains respectful.  You're welcome and thank you as well.  It was a fun conversation.  Despite everything I've said, I will continue watching the Wii U.  If it surprises me and gets a ton of great games that cater to me then I'll definitely be picking one up.  It needs more Xenoblade games and less Mario/Black Ops games to do that though.  I'm one of the few JRPG North American gamers left, which should explain why I like the PS3 this gen lol.

 @Vylsith 

I guess we're not going to be able to agree, but I do see what you're saying. As far as the Wii U goes, just give it time, remember that the PS3 started off rather horribly and now it's arguably the best console of the 7th generation. Nintendo should very much be turning heads this coming E3 (along with the other two). 

Either way, thanks for nice conversation, although we got off on the wrong foot, I grateful that you remained respectful :D

 @teachmelove  @abHS4L88 I did answer the question:"Anyway, it doesn't state the sample group or where the data was obtained, but Nielsen is a pretty well known pollster.  So while it is possible there's a high margin of error, it's doubtful unless they specifically mention it.  The data is from 2009 (the most current I could find), but since PS3 and 360 sales have increased while Wii sales have decreased in that time period I think it's safe to say that if anything today's numbers would support my argument more.There is crossover, and I never pretended that the Wii is only for children.  So I'm not sure why we're still talking about it."Here's why you can trust Nielsen:"Nielsen is a leading[1] global information and measurement company that enables companies to understand consumers and consumer behavior. Nielsen measures and monitors what consumers watch (programming, advertising) and what consumers buy (categories, brands, products) on a global and local basis. The company has a presence in approximately 100 countries spread across Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe, Middle East, North America, South America and Russia."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_CompanyThey don't do small polls and they don't post highly inaccurate data.  Other companies worldwide pay for their services because they're known to be accurate.  So again, unless you have some reason to believe this specific poll is not accurate, we should stop focusing on sample size which doesn't really matter anyway unless you happen to know the math and constants necessary to formulate a margin of error for said poll.  Nielsen is a very valid polling firm.  If it makes you feel better the Wii U is pretty high on the polls for gifts that children want for Christmas.  More so than the other consoles.  Of course, that kind of proves my point...

 @abHS4L88 Didn't know that about Rare, but it really doesn't change anything I said.  No, I associate any game with a M rating as being a mature game (not to be confused with games that mature gamers prefer).  From what I've personally experienced, most single player games with a M rating have far more developed stories than games that are rated E for Everyone.  Now T for Teen games can have great stories (take Tales of Graces F for instances), but there aren't many games that are rated T anymore.  The vast majority of E for Everyone games have almost no story.  There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.  Xenoblade was rated T for instance.  It's very difficult to tell a compelling story when it has to be appropriate for 6 year olds.It's possible, but not something that most adults will want to play all the time.  Which is why most adults don't watch Pixar movies all day long.  That doesn't mean that we have to watch horror movies all day either.  There are plenty of PG-13 and PG movies I enjoy that I have no problem watching.  I don't judge a movie based on its rating, but Disney movies live in a vacuum where everything is going to end up perfect.  I don't want to watch that all the time.  Most people don't.  Same goes for E for Everyone.  I just can't play it all the time.  It's not that I don't enjoy it, but there are other games I enjoy more.  Trying to go back to watching only G rated movies after watching all other types of movies would be...  terrible.  I'm sure you understand my point even if you don't agree with it.Never played Super Meat Boy or World of Goo, but Ikaruga is a game for mature gamers.  Why?  Because it was definitely not designed for children.  I'd only let my son play that game if I wanted a broken TV and controller.  I almost want to smash my controller sometimes playing that game.  It's not a game for kids.  It's a great game, but very difficult.  I also don't think side and overhead shooters have ever been considered games for kids.  They require reflexes that most children simply do not have until they are 10 or 11 at the earliest.I do agree that Nintendo absolutely needs to be different than Sony and Microsoft.  That's why all 3 consoles did so well this generation, because they were so different.  Every demographic had a very real reason to choose one console over the others.  That's the exact problem I have with the Wii U.  It doesn't do what the Wii did.  It's trying to cater to the mature gamer market, but it also wants to cater to children and right now it seems like it's offering half of what it should to both markets.  Yes, it does have a better library than most systems do at launch, but most of the reason for that is because it's filling the library with 3rd party titles.  I also don't like the fact that NintendoLand seems to be a tablet cliche game.  I've already done almost everything they're doing on a tablet before, and I didn't like it then.  There are people who do like it, but bringing mobile games to a console kind of defeats the purpose...I'm not as optimistic about the Wii U as you are.  I hope I'm wrong, but I'll probably be buying a PS4 for my JRPG and great exclusives fix.  If my son wants a Wii U a few years from now then I'll get him one and buy myself Zelda.  ^^  Anyway, it doesn't really matter.  Have fun with your Nintendo games.  That's the only thing that matters when all is said and done.

 @Vylsith  @abHS4L88 you still haven't answered my question - what's the size of sampling crowd and from which geographical location(s)? stats are great but i want to know how accurate of a sampling this is.. 

 @Vylsith 

Rare was never 1st party, they were 2nd because Nintendo only owned 49% of the company, that's why they're a 1st party Microsoft developer because Microsoft owns 100% of the studio. 

As far as "mature gaming" goes, that's again where I disagree, you associate games that have rich stories and detailed gameplay as the only games that can be "mature", any game that greatly challenges you in some way or hits you emotionally, those are games I associate with "mature gaming" and Nintendo provides games that challenge you as a gamer. 

Would you say Super Meat Boy, World of Goo, or Ikaruga are not mature games? They're simplistic in nature, hardly any story, yet will challenge even the most skilled gamers. 

For me, I'm happy that Nintendo is doing their own thing because we don't need them to be like Sony, that's why we have Sony, as such, we don't need Sony being like Nintendo, and it's good that they're not and when they do take inspiration from Nintendo, they put their own twist on it which I think is great. 

I agree that the Wii was indeed not the best showcase of the variety Nintendo has to offer, although looking at their attitude towards the Wii U and their desire to "win back the core" I can see them bringing back along with creating a wide variety of franchises to the Wii U.

 @teachmelove  @abHS4L88 http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/consumer/every-gaming-system-has-its-fans-but-women-like-wii/I think I'm about to give up on trying to separate my text into paragraphs.  Apparently this comment section hates me.  No idea why my enter doesn't = new line, but whatever.  Anyway, it doesn't state the sample group or where the data was obtained, but Nielsen is a pretty well known pollster.  So while it is possible there's a high margin of error, it's doubtful unless they specifically mention it.  The data is from 2009 (the most current I could find), but since PS3 and 360 sales have increased while Wii sales have decreased in that time period I think it's safe to say that if anything today's numbers would support my argument more.There is crossover, and I never pretended that the Wii is only for children.  So I'm not sure why we're still talking about it.  I know my absence of paragraphs is annoying (trust me it annoys me more than you probably), but honestly you're constantly portraying my argument as "Wii is only for children" and that isn't what I'm saying at all.  The Wii catered more to children, which is why more Wiis were bought for children and more children play the Wii than any other demographic.  If it catered to adults then the opposite would be true.  There are actually many more adult gamers than children gamers, so the fact that the Wii has more children gamers definitely shows that children tend to like the Wii more than adults.If you don't want to agree with me it's fine, I'm just not sure why you can't admit that the Wii obviously caters more to children than adults since obviously more children play the Wii than adults.  Arguing against that logic is honestly...  illogical.  Enough said.

 @abHS4L88  @teachmelove I won't argue with you there.  I've never been a big Microsoft fan, and the XBox 360 doesn't really change that.  Rare deserved better than what they got, and Bungie left most likely because they couldn't develop anything that wasn't Halo.  Lionhead used to be an innovative company, but not just makes Fable over and over again while Peter Molyneux tries to pretend that this one is the best thing that ever happened to video games.  Sony and Nintendo developers have a lot more freedom without a doubt, and it shows in their games.  I'm amazed that they allowed Alan Wake to happen, but they did completely change it from the open world game it was supposed to be and force it to become a 360 exclusive.Still, Microsoft got their userbase by focusing on one demographic, the mature base that loves shooters.  Specifically online shooters.  There's a lot of people in the US who do.  I personally can't stand them, but then I played them to death when I was 15-20.  All the consoles catered to a different demographic this generation, and the problem I see with the Wii U is twofold.  First off, it doesn't know what it wants to be right now.  That wouldn't be a problem if it was in a league of its own, but it's not.  The Wii U is very much competing with the 360 and PS3 right now.  It's not a huge technological leap, the graphics are pretty comparable, and other than the controller there isn't a lot of distinguish it from its competitors.The 360 was a huge technological leap and you could tell right from launch with some games (Perfect Dark Zero and Project Gotham Racing were far beyond anything in the generation before it graphically).  The Wii U will undoubtedly create some great looking games over time, but they have yet to match the PS3 in graphical ability.  When we see a game that makes Uncharted 2 and 3 look last gen, then you'll see a lot more interest from mature gamers.  Not to sound shallow, but graphics do make a difference.  I upgrade consoles for better graphics.  Almost everyone does.  It adds a lot to the immersion factor, no matter what anyone wants to pretend.  I've played games since the Atari 2600 (I actually played my first games on the Atari 800 on a casette tape drive), and the argument that graphics don't matter is hilarious.  Yes they do.

 @abHS4L88 Rare was a first party studio, so yes that was Nintendo that was making the games.  Just like Miramax was owned by Disney so yes Disney was making R rated movies.  When you buy a company, that means that company is now a part of your company.  You can keep their name separate if you'd like, but that doesn't make them any less a part of your company.  I understand where you're going, but you're missing the point.  Few 3rd party developers are going to develop mature titles for a Nintendo console until they see a lot of demand from mature gamers for the Wii U.  In order to create demand Nintendo needs to do what Sony is good at:  Make great games to get more people to buy their console.  Nintendo is great at making great games that aren't mature.  They simply don't make games that are mature.If they want to compete they need some first party exclusives that are mature.  Then they can draw mature gamers to the Wii U which in turn will draw more mature developers to the Wii U.  I can tell you right now, the Wii U not getting GTAV is going to stop a LOT of mature gamers from getting the Wii U.  The same goes for a lot of other big name multi-platform titles that the developers don't plan on releasing on the Wii U.  If Nintendo had something to offset that loss, they could still bring over some mature gamers.  They don't right now.  It's going to hurt them in that demographic.  You can't look at the situation and honestly believe otherwise.  It's not about Nintendo getting some more 3rd party support.  It needs ALL 3rd party support.  It needs 1st party exclusives on top of the few 3rd party exclusives it will get that cater to mature gamers.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I really doubt it.  Gamers go for the system with the games that appeal to them the most.  Until the Wii U can do that, they won't get mature gamers.I haven't played Skyward Sword yet so I wouldn't know.  I plan to though soon.  ^^  Once I get through all the other games I want to get through.  <.<  Metroid, however, I didn't like this gen.  I enjoyed the Game Cube titles, but the Wii titles were pretty poor in my opinion.  Not only was the motion control extremely annoying for a FPS, but the games as a whole just seemed poorly designed in comparison to the very good Metroids for the Game Cube.  Metroid Other M in particular was pretty terrible in my opinion.I didn't know that Monolith became a first party studio for Nintendo, but I do own Xenoblade and I do agree it's a great game.  Xenosaga was actually one of my favorite series for the PS2.  That being said, there are plenty of great JRPGs for other consoles as well.  Persona 4 Golden for instance is honestly better than Xenoblade.  I do love me some Xenoblade though.  It's one of the few games I bought for me on the Wii.Sorry, but if the game has Mario in it these days I generally like it less.  Don't get me wrong Mario Party and Mario Kart can be fun with a bunch of friends, but I'm tired of seeing Mario's face on everything that Nintendo does.  Sony doesn't use Nathan Drake, sack boy, or Kraotos in every game.  If it has Mario's face on the game, it's a Mario game.  It has the same style of animation, it has the same simplistic gameplay, it has the same voices, the same music, etc.  It doesn't mean the game can't be fun, but I'm so done with Mario.  I've been gaming since I was 4, I've played plenty of Mario in my day.  The best Mario game is still by far Super Mario Brothers 3 in my honest opinion.  Just like my favorite Zelda is Link to the Past.  They were the most innovative, and everything else just uses the same formula.  I got bored with it when I got older.  I know I've been gaming for a lot longer than most people, but Nintendo hasn't really changed much in a long time.

Yes, the motion control idea was great for the casuals, but the games were pretty much the standard Nintendo affair.  There was nothing like Metroid for the Game Cube that mixed things up this gen.  Mario Galaxy was just a better version of Mario 64.  Meh.  I'm complaining and my complaints really mean nothing.  You should like what you like.  I'm just saying what needs to happen for Nintendo to interest me and other older gamers like myself that have grown tired of the same thing from Nintendo.

 @Vylsith  @abHS4L88 i'm not arguing against the stats - i'm simply stating that this is not a black and white issue - there are shades of gray in what adults and children enjoy in games. The stats are no where near black and white but shows that there are crossovers from both adults and children across all systems. 

btw, where are these samplings coming from geographically and how many people did they interview?

 @teachmelove  @abHS4L88 More children play the Wii than adults.  More adults play the 360 and PS3 than children.  There's no narrow-mindedness in accepting the truth.  That's reality.  If you want to ignore it go for it.  I can't stop you from lying to yourself.  I never said anything was made for only one age group, I did say that most Nintendo products are made with children in mind first.  Learn to read what I write instead of insulting me for things I didn't say.  You're the one putting the name children in front of everything.  Notice I always say "caters to children" or "children are the main demograhpic".  I'm not calling you a child for playing the Wii, but Nintendo does design games for their main demographic.  That main demographic is children.  Face reality already.Obviously you don't understand the rating system.  The rating system doesn't exist to let children know what they should enjoy, it exists to let adults know what they might not want their children to be playing.  Your argument makes no sense.  Moving on.More adults play PS3 and 360, so apparently more adults enjoy mature themes than E for Everybody themes.  You don't like it?  Go complain with the statistics.  Children are Nintendo's main consumers, so they will cater to children.  That's common sense.  No, really.  It is.Statistics don't care about the preferences of different people.  In fact, statistics exist to find an average of preferences.  Apparently those averages show that children play the Wii more often and adults play the 360 and PS3 more often.  You can't argue with statistics.  You won't win.  Try to explain them away all you'd like, but unless you have a valid reason why the poll is inaccurate you have no argument.  Nada.  Zilch.  Moving on.You don't like mature games.  That's cool.  I do.  It doesn't really matter what we like.  Most adults like the PS3 and 360.  Most children like the Wii.  Moving on.Statistics have already shown that adults favor more mature games.  Your continued argument on this matter is illogical unless you can prove the statistics wrong.  Moving on.Obviously Sony and Microsoft try to get as many different demographics as possible to buy their product, but their main demographic IS adults.  Do you know what a demographic is?  Honestly, all you're doing is arguing against the statistics I've already provided.  They're real.  They exist.  Children like the Wii more.  Adults like the PS3 and 360 more.  I don't know what to tell you.  Go yell at society for not agreeing with you?  That doesn't mean all adults don't like the Wii or all children don't like playing the 360 and PS3.  However, the PS3 and 360 are obviously considered more mature consoles as shown by their main demographics.  The Wii is obviously considered more of a children's console as shown by their main demographics.  That doesn't mean the Wii is only for children, but Nintendo's main consumer IS children and so they will cater to children before anyone else.  Reality check.

 @teachmelove  @Vylsith 

If you want proof that Microsoft doesn't only cater to adults, look at what they did to Rare, Rare, an extremely talented British studio that excelled at making mature themed games go reduced to making casual games with a broad appeal. This never happened to them under Nintendo, who pretty much gave them free reign to develop whatever they wanted. 

 @Vylsith  

I know that Disney owns a studios that make R rated films, but in the end it's still not them themselves making it, same with Nintendo, they have 2nd parties or 3rd parties do it, like when Rare was under them. 

Nintendo does make T rated games, like the recent console Zelda titles and Metroid. I thought Skyward Sword was really engaging in its story, Zelda actually had a personality and made you care about her. 

But yeah, we'll see what direction Nintendo takes their games now that they have a lot more room to expand the stories. Monolith Soft's Xenoblade was (in my opinion) one of the best stories in videogames I experienced in a long time, and they're a 1st party developer under Nintendo (I strongly suggest you try it out if you haven't). 

I know the Wii U is off to a rather rough start with the "core gamer" but right now I know that it's because Nintendo is more focused on getting 3rd parties on board, if they can do that, then the Wii U will easily become more appealing to more gamers. As far as Mario goes, they're not using him as much as people say, sure there were 2 New Super Mario Bros games that came out this year but when's the next time another entry will come out? Most likely when the next gen handheld comes out. Paper Mario is its own franchise, same with MarioKart, and both those games also only come out once per console, 3D Mario usually follows once per console also, with the exception of Super Mario Galaxy. 

 @Vylsith  @abHS4L88 Vylsith, your need to silo video games by age is more indicative of your insecurity and narrow-mindedness than anything. Preferences are not so black and white among different age groups and for you to say something is made for a certain age group without really understanding the intent of the developers at Nintendo, is just plain arrogant and assumptive.

The next time you actually have a conversation with the higher ups at Nintendo about their intended audience, let's talk. Cos' last time I checked, their games are for EVERYBODY. Not just kids. Not just adults. Everybody.

It's clear that MS and SONY want to support games that feature more "mature" themes but like I said, plenty of children I know would jump at the opportunity to play these games just as much as they'd love to play Mario.

Don't be so naive to think that kids OR adults are as one dimensional as your argument. Kid and adults are both human beings with complex preferences that stem from innumerable variables, not withstanding culture, place of birth, and personal tastes (to name a few).

I personally own a PS3 but it's more for the graphics than it is for the actual games. It's a terrible reason, I know... but it's simple really... I just don't like the type of games that come out on PS3 (and XBOX 360). As such, the PS3 has been relegated to a blu-ray player at this point. At the same time, my wii has not seen the light of day for years because of terrible third party support. It seems like not one console can get things right and so I own multiples. I own the Wii U as well now and intend to purchase either the XBOX 720 or the PS4, depending on who brings the better content.

I know we can agree on that point, but what I cannot agree with you on is how you keep siloing the console makers into specific age groups because it simply is not true. Like I said, age is only one factor in a gamer's choice to play a certain type of game. So many other variables contribute to what both kids and adults prefer.

Some kids will love FPSs, others RPGs, others Sports Titles, others Adventure Games, others Party Games. Same goes for adults. What I love about the Big N is that they're trying to reach all audiences now. I'm curious to see how Sony and MS try to play their cards going forward. Contrary to what you think and what most of the gaming community vehemently swears by, Sony and Microsoft DO NOT CATER ONLY TO ADULTS.

THEY CATER TO PEOPLE WHO LOVE THEIR GAME GENRES. 

END OF STORY!

 @abHS4L88 You probably didn't know this, because most people don't, but Disney actually owns Miramax studios.  They make a lot of R rated movies.  Nintendo can make first party mature titles.  They just need to make sure that the name of the studio doesn't imply Nintendo and be very explicit about the fact that the game is a M rated game.  Nintendo just doesn't like making mature games.  I think the most mature themed game I've ever seen come out of Nintendo themselves was Twilight Princess (which is my second favorite Zelda by the way).Honestly though, Nintendo doesn't have to go with M rated titles.  Even more T rated titles would be fine.  Twilight Princess was so much more interesting to me than most Zeldas because it was unique.  It delved into the darker nature of things.  I mean Ganondorf is supposed to be an evil wizard taking over the world, and you never really get a feeling of distress at all playing most of the Zeldas.  In Twilight Princess, you did.  It was nice.  It really helped create a feeling of immersion that you don't generally get from Nintendo.They don't have to make games incredibly dark.  There doesn't need to be sexual innuendos or blood splatter everywhere, but the world should fit the theme of the game.  I wouldn't mind a Zelda that actually delves into Link's personal life.  You get almost none of that in any Zelda.  A little bit of personality turmoil, building character development, things like that.  I just don't get that from Nintendo games, and I'm very much into the story in video games.  It's a huge reason I can't get into Nintendo games.  They make the story as simple as possible so it doesn't offend people.  Maybe you don't agree, but I want to like Nintendo.  I really do.  I just find myself liking them less as time goes on.

I don't assume that all PS/XBox gamers won't enjoy the Wii U.  I assume that most won't.  That doesn't mean it won't cater to them in the future, but right now there's really no reason for a gamer who enjoys more mature content to be interested in the Wii U.  ZombiU is it.  I do hope that E3 brings some more interesting content, but I'm not holding my breath.  Nintendo has a really hard time changing how they do things.  They need to do a lot of things to get the core crowd back.  A bunch of Mario games isn't going to do it.  It'll get the diehard Nintendo fans and the children, but there's a lot of core gamers (like me) who got really tired of seeing Mario in every game about 6 years ago.  They need to give Mario a rest.  He doesn't have to be in every other first party exclusive.

 @teachmelove  @abHS4L88 First off, you have to blind to argue that the graph doesn't show a clear preference among gamers of different ages.  The graph very clearly shows that most gamers that are 18+ prefer the 360 and PS3 over the Wii.  There's no arguing that.  The numbers show it beyond any shadow of a doubt.  The only place you could argue is among females, however there are plenty of females that opt for the more mature conent on the PS3 and 360 as well.  The average gamer is a 30 year old male.  The Wii does not cater to the average gamer.

Second, I've already stated MANY times that I enjoy some Nintendo games.  I own a Wii.  I own a 3DS.  I happen to enjoy my PS3 and PS Vita more than the Wii or the 3DS, but that doesn't mean I don't play games on and enjoy them on Nintendo systems.  You're arguing that I refuse to believe that adults can enjoy games on a Nintendo system and that's completely ignorant since I've already stated plenty of times that your statement is absolutely false.  Nintendo is a company that caters to children.  That's where they got their origins in the late 1800s making children's card games, when they entered the video game market their products were definitely aimed at kids, and the Nintendo handheld market in the US is very much about children.  In Japan it's a very different story, but in the US Nintendo is considered a company that caters to children.  That doesn't mean you can't enjoy their games if you aren't a kid.  I have friends who love Nintendo.

You're obviously not reading my posts.  You see "Nintendo is aimed at children" and you get upset.  Get over it.  Nintendo IS aimed at children.  Just like Disney is aimed at children.  Just like legos are aimed at children.  You can still enjoy them as an adult, but your argument that simply because an adult likes a product that makes it less of a children's toy is absurd.  There are some children's games on computers, but does that make a computer a children's toy?  No.  Computers are for adults.  Children can still use them, but the main purpose of a computer is for adult use.  The opposite goes for the Wii and 3DS.  Adults can still use the Wii and 3DS, but they were mostly for children.  I'm sure I'll have a blast building lego castles with my son in a few years, but guess what?  Legos are still a children's toy.  I'm okay with that.  Stop taking out your insecurities on me.

 @VenkmanPHD  

Yes, because you need an ESRB rating to validate yourself as a gamer.

 @Vylsith 

They're in the process of creating new franchises so hopefully by E3 2013 those we be revealed. However, you can't expect Nintendo create an M rated game themselves because that's just not their nature, just like how you can't expect Disney to create an R rated movie. 

But they're completely not above getting others to do it, as with the case with Bayonetta 2 and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (although that's rated T). 

Also you can't assume that all/most Playstation/XBox gamers don't/won't bother with Nintendo's games, I didn't even grow up playing Nintendo for the most part (mainly Smash) and it wasn't until I started buying my own games that I became really interested in Nintendo's library. 

 @abHS4L88  @a1450358509  @Araknie Only an imbecile would look at the wiis library, see the vast majority as being rated E and not assume this was a console for children.

 @abHS4L88 I have been.  ><  It used to add spaces for me, but now it won't.  So annoying.  LOLAt this point I think Nintendo needs to create new franchises.  Most of their great mature exclusives from the past have been 3rd party exclusives like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Warrior, Contra, etc.  I think Nintendo might be spreading itself thin by seriously going over the mature gamers, but if they insist on doing it then they need to get over their family friendly stigma and stop being afraid to make games that aren't E for Everyone.  I like the occasional E for Everyone game, but it extremely limits the content possible.  Skyrim is an amazing game.  It would never work as an E for Everyone game and that's not just because of the violence.  The same is true of Uncharted, God of War, Persona 4 Golden, Dead Space, Bioshock, Red Dead Redemption, Grand Theft Auto, and all the other very good mature games that have come out this generation.

Mature doesn't just mean violence and sex and the argument I see from Wii fanboys that mature games can't be innovative and force adult themes is just ridiculous.  Grand Theft Auto can't be a kid's game.  It's an amazing game, but it will never be E for Everyone.  Some games are for children.  Some games are for adults.  Mature children may be able to play adults games.  Adults can play both children's and adult games.  People need to stop hating on other people's gaming choices.  My comments aren't in any way an attempt to insult someone for their gaming preferences.  It's merely my opinion on what Nintendo needs to do if they're going to appeal to core gamers.  Offering some multi-platform games is not going to win people over.  They need to make some mature first party titles.  I don't think they will, and they'll never win over Playstation and XBox gamers until they do.

 @Vylsith  @abHS4L88 your graph also shows that xbox and ps3 appeals to the same children you claim that nintendo aims for.. 

what's your point? 

if xbox and ps3 are so adult, why do so many kids want them for the holidays? hm?

is it MAYBE possible that kids can enjoy both kinds of games as well as adults?

HMMMM.... OPEN YOUR MIND BUDDY.

 @teachmelove  @abHS4L88 First off, mobile gaming is not console gaming.  iOS gaming is also by far the least profitable on a per game average for developers.  Yes, some games do sell extremely well and go on to sell millions (like Angry Birds and Infinity Blade for instance), but most do not.  Most sell poorly.  The mobile market may be the fastest growing market, but it's far from the most profitable market.  It's definitely the least profitable market in gaming.  The games sell for very little and casuals are very fickle about what will be the next fad game.  For every 15 games that a developer makes for the mobile platform, they'll only see one or two become mildly successful.  It also isn't a very stable market right now.  Nobody knows where the mobile market is going, and that's why many developers are being very cautious about becoming involved with it.  That being said, console gaming has nothing to do with mobile gaming.  They're completely different demographics and the crossover is very minimal.  Most core gamers will not shun their console to play Angry Birds.  They may buy it for their smart phone, but they won't spend hours upon hours playing it at home.  There are exceptions, but statistics show there aren't enough to matter.  The average console gamer is 30.  Most 30 years old aren't interested in games that aren't mature.  Sorry, but the statistics prove as much.  Go back to my post where I linked playtime for the Wii compared to the PS3 and 360 if you'd like.  Notice most older gamers don't play the Wii.  You like the Wii?  Awesome.  Don't accuse me of being shallow because I point out the very real fact that the Wii is mostly played by children, where the 360 and PS3 are mostly played by adults.  That's reality.  If it bothers you then that's your problem not mine.  I'm not calling you immature.  I'm not telling you that you're a little kid because you like Wii games.  I don't think that at all.  You are playing a console that's main purpose is to entertain children though.  That's reality.  I like some Wii games too.  However, the argument that Nintendo does not cater well to the mature gamer is a VERY VALID argument.  Stop pretending that Nintendo has plenty to offer the average adult.  It doesn't.

 @Vylsith 

Press enter ;) These comment boards don't recognize html. 

Either way, I'm not going to argue with you anymore about the nature of the Wii, you have your views on it, I have mine. As far as the Wii U goes, Nintendo (like I said) is targeting all audiences. Sure the gaming library may not be much right now but if they bring back the right franchises along with getting the right 3rd parties on board, it could very well be the console of choice.

 @abHS4L88  I'm sure they'll announce the same franchises we know and love from Nintendo, but that won't draw the core gamers.  Most core gamers buy Nintendos for two games.  Metroid and Zelda.  That's it.  I do own a Wii, mostly for my son who will soon be old enough to enjoy it.  I will enjoy Zelda and Xenoblade Chronicles on it.  Probably Monster Hunter Tri as well, but I'm not going to play it very often.  If not for my son I would never have bought one.  The Game Cube I bought because it was a good console.  It also sold terribly because it was not catered to children.  Sony and Microsoft will win the core gamers.  Mature gamers will flock to the console that suits their interests better.  Sony gets the gamers more interested in an immersive single player experience, Microsoft gets the gamers interested in an online experience, and Nintendo gets the children and casuals.  Everyone is happy, life goes on.  I'm sure the Wii U will eventually be a great and fun console, but it'll still lose out to consoles that have a better mature experience.  Nintendo will never have that.  It's just not in their nature.  Never has been.

 @abHS4L88 How do I add a newline/line break to a comment?  I've tried everything I can think of besides \n .  We'll see if that works...  Anyway, I didn't realize he made that comment.  It was inappropriate.  In any case, I know that it's not just a kid's game.  You're in absolute denial about my statement though.  Pixar movies are not movies for all audiences.  They're movies for kids.  Period.  Shrek is a movie for all audiences.  Pixar movies are kept extremely clean to allow parents to have no concerns about letting their children watch them.  When Pixar come out with a new movie the first demographic they are concerned about is children.  They do their best to make it enjoyable for parents to watch them as well, but that doesn't make them movies for all ages.  What it means is you'll be less annoyed watching a Pixar movie 50 times than you will be watching Cinderella 50 times.  That doesn't mean I'd go out and buy a Pixar movie if I didn't have a 2 year old.  I wouldn't.  Same thing goes for most adults.  Most adults would not buy a Wii if they didn't have children (as evidenced by the fact that most of them also own a 360 or PS3 and play that over two times more often).  If you look at demographics the Wii gets bought for children the majority of the time, and children make up over 60% of it's total playtime.  Compare that to the 360 or PS3 where kids make up less than 30%.  The Wii is a children's console.  There are some adult games on it, but they are few in comparison.  Children play it more than adults.  I'm sure there are some adults that like playing with legos too, but that doesn't make legos an adult toy.  It's a kid's toy.  You like playing the Wii, and there's nothing wrong with that.  It IS a console that's aimed at children though.  Nintendo goes out of their way to make the Wii as kid friendly as possible.  They don't seem to be doing that as much with the Wii U and I honestly think it's a huge mistake.  We'll see what happens.

 @abHS4L88 i couldn't have said it better myself (in ref to your blog)... good stuff!

 @teachmelove 

EXACTLY! I loathe the term "hardcore" gamer and would much rather say "true gamer" or "real gamer" but even those feel weird to say. I don't even like saying "casual gamers" because again, you're labeling people when we all clearly have different interests and perspectives. 

Some of these people that get labeled "casual gamers" spend more time on puzzle and social games than we do on our gaming consoles, hell I love playing puzzle blitz games on Facebook and on this one called Diamond Dash, my aunt destroys me at that game (although I reign supreme in Bejewled Blitz). 

But yeah, this whole labeling thing is just annoying and you wonder why so many people tend to think the term "gamer" is an insult rather than a part of someone. I wrote a blog about it on my profile :P

 @abHS4L88  @Vylsith It's extremely one dimensional of you Vylsith to group certain genre of games to adults and others to children. Who says all adults enjoy violence, gore, and dark themes? Don't you think it's entirely feasible that adults can enjoy a video game that does not have those 3 things? 

I am 32 and for me personally, I stay away from FPS because they add more stress to my life than I need. I, along with millions of ADULTS love casual gaming which I think IMHO that Nintendo excels at. 

Apple's IOS platform and Google's Android platform illustrates this ever more clearly. Do you really think all of those casual games like Angry Birds are being purchased by kids? I don't think so. They are hitting a broad demographic of users from my mom to your nephew. I think Nintendo excels at this whereas Sony and Microsoft miss the mark.

In some ways I feel like Sony and MS are like the modern day Sega. Their strength is in their system specs and sheer bravado when it comes to their games. 

I've been gaming since the early 80s and I've never EVER been impressed by Sega, Turbo Grafx, or the like. They never created content that intrigued me. That's not to say they did not cater to a demographic. They certainly did but it was a very LIMITED one and I as a child, and now as an adult found the content not to my liking.

Which brings me to my point.... I don't think you should narrow mindedly label Sony and PS3 consoles only for "hardcore gamers" while labeling Nintendo consoles as mainly for children.

Fact of the matter is... it comes down to taste.

Not all adults love the violence and dark nature of games released on PS3 and XBOX. They just don't. And for you to say they all do, is very arrogant of you.

IT'S A MATTER OF OPINION.

Oh and by the way, I'm so sick of people using the label "hardcore gamer" for this very reason.

WTF is hardcore gaming?? The violence and darkness????

I personally think the term needs to go.

It's divisive and extremely elitist to say only games with "mature" themes qualify as hardcore games.

You know what I think a hardcore gamer is?

One with an open mind who is willing to find the beauty in all types of genres and games and systems.

Let's try that for a change eh?

 @Vylsith  

Oh and as far as the 3rd party games go, the Wii U did just launch and if those ports do well, all the more the 3rd parties will support Nintendo. Nintendo already has the backing of several smaller developers along with many Indie developers.

Also I'm pretty sure they're gearing up for a knock out display at E3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtBSwFN69Uw&feature=g-all-u

While these are just rumors, if even half of those are true, it'll still be an amazing show from Nintendo. 

I'm excited to see all 3's presentation, might be the first time I bother watching all 3. 

 @Vylsith  

He did, it was in another thread of comments and I'm in no way offended, I just think it's amazing how people can attack someone's level of maturity without realizing how immature they're making themselves look.

I am by no means embarrassed, I work at a middle school and I sported a Kirby shirt, I also have a Club Nintendo bag that I use for work, it does not bother me one bit what anyone thinks about the games I play. 

And like I said, it's not JUST a kid's game, that rating that says E+ means "Everyone" and that's what Nintendo has been going for with majority of their games. Again, if Nintendo only had kids in mind, they would not make Super Mario as challenging as it is, same with Zelda, same with Donkey, same with Metroid. Probably the ONLY franchise I would say that Nintendo specifically marketed towards kids is the Kirby franchise. I don' tknow why that's so hard to understand. It's like Dreamworks and Pixar movies, they're made with all audiences in mind, not just children. It's possible to do that you know. 

 @abHS4L88  @a1450358509  @Araknie First off, Mario has always been aimed at children.  Cartoony with a bunch of animals.  That pretty much screams children.  The villain is extremely tame and no harm ever comes to anyone in the games.  There's no true violence, no suggestive themes.  Nothing.  It's a kid's game.  Now it's a kid's game that adults enjoy more than most, just like Spirited Away was a children's movie that adults enjoyed more than most, but it's still a game for children.  You don't have to be embarrassed because you enjoy playing Mario, but stop pretending it's a core game for mature gamers.  It's not.  Get over it.He never called you an 8 year old.  He said that the Wii was a children's console.  It was by all standards a children's console.  The vast majority of games for the Wii were aimed at the children's demographic because they were the main consumer of Wii games.  He did word it poorly and you can feel free to get upset because his comment was full of venom toward Nintendo for (god forbid) releasing a console that's aimed at children.  However, that doesn't make it any less of a children's console.  The Wii WAS a children's console.  Get over it.Why should I get over myself when you're the one who's in denial?  Play the console you enjoy and stop worrying so much about what other people think.  If you like a console that many children happen to also like, then good for you!  The idea of a mature console is very new to this generation (unless you include Neo Geo or Turbo Graffix 16 that sold so poorly there's no point in mentioning them).  Some people will enjoy the more casual, less mature style of entertainment.  Others will enjoy the more mature themed entertainment.  It doesn't make one person better than the other.  However, Nintendo is aiming at the mature crowd with the Wii U and so far they're failing miserably.  ZombiU is the only mature experience exclusive to the Wii U.  The other mature experiences are all 3rd party games that are better on the PS3/360.  ZombiU is not a system seller.  We'll see what happens over the next year.  So far, Nintendo isn't going to win any core gamers that aren't diehard Nintendo fans.  Face reality or not, your decision.

 @Vylsith  @a1450358509  @Araknie 

I didn't say that the Wii was a mature console, to be exact, it's a console for everyone, something people of all ages (literally) will enjoy. If Mario was only meant for children, then why bother making it challenging? Obviously they meant it to be appealing for both children and adults alike, same when Disney/Pixar puts more mature themes or jokes within their movies for adults to enjoy along with kids.

And no, I'm not arguing with him calling Nintendo kiddie, just the simple fact that he's calling me an "8 year old" based on what I like is flat out immature.

You need to get over yourself.

 @abHS4L88  @a1450358509  @Araknie While you do have a point, you're also completely ignoring his valid (and very poorly worded) argument.  While Nintendo has always catered to children, they've also always had a lot to offer other demographics as well.  The Wii had few games that didn't cater to children.  And yes, Mario is for children.  You can still enjoy it if you aren't a child, but it's very much a children's game.  Just like Disney is very much a children's movie company.  That doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching the occasional Disney movie, but I have little interest in watching Disney movies all the time.  There are some Wii games I do enjoy, but there are far less than the PS3 and 360 have and for most older gamers that is true as well.  You're arguing that his use of the word kiddie is immature, but your refusal to admit that Nintendo offers far less for adult gamers than the PS3 and the 360 is blatant denial.  The Wii was not a mature game console.  A few mature games a mature console does not make.  You liked it?  Cool, nobody's saying you shouldn't  I have friends that love Disney movies.  On average, most adults don't.  Get over it.