Obsidian turns to Kickstarter for Project Eternity

 @WeWerePirates

 WEll because there is not much difference? Its just a very long preorder

 @edinko "I simply failt to see what exactly is wrong with a 20 dollar preorder for a hopefully big rpg"

QFT

You also simply fail/refuse to see the difference between backing on Kickstarter and a pre-order.

If you want good value go check out the bundle with Plane Scape Torment on GOG right now. If you want to support more games in genre go to Kickstarter. Actually people should do both.

 @WeWerePiratesWhat protections? Do you feel yourself protected when you buy yourself a 60 bucks 4 hour poor shooter which is sure as hell incomplete and will require another 100 just for dlc?

I simply failt to see what exactly is wrong with a 20 dollar preorder for a hopefully big rpg

 @WeWerePirates  @melkathi  @SergioMX It's difficult to tell what you think because you keep contradicting yourself.

 @Gooeykat  @melkathi  @SergioMXWell you've gone from telling me what I've said to telling me what I think.

I'm done.

@WeWerePirates@melkathi@SergioMX

And you're being dishonest in your defense of your argument that the real value of kickstarter comes from supporting games that would otherwise not be developed.  This is the crux of your argument and yet you yourself could have donated the $5 minimum and achieved that sense of value.  Yet you chose to donate more because you obviously found value in getting copy of the game plus and any additional items you may receive based on your donation.  Would you have kicked in had you not received these items, I wonder.

 @Gooeykat  @melkathi  @SergioMXAt this point you are misconstruing what I wrote. I didn't say the rewards are valueless, I wrote "backing purely for the contents of the reward packages is bad value."

 @WeWerePirates  @melkathi  @SergioMX

What's really dumb is saying that people will receive value from a kickstarter if they ONLY do it for the intentions of "supporting a game that otherwise not be published."  If you wanted to do this, why make a donation above $20 at all?  You could have just made multiple $5 donations, you would not have received the game but you would be supporting the development of the game.  The fact of the matter is people want to support developer AND they want to get a copy of the game (plus addtional stuff depending), they find value in both.  For instance, one level gives someone a signed copy of the game from the developers, I don't particularly find that valueable but I can see how a die-hard RPG fan might be interested in getting that.

 @Gooeykat  @melkathi  @SergioMX "So if you are saying that for 31% of backers in this particular kickstarter, the value may not be there, than I agree!"

Did I say that?  What I said more than once before was backing purely for the contents of the reward packages is bad value. The true value comes from supporting something they are enthusiastic about.

As for those 31% who backed more than $20, as I've written else where you can number me among those 31% so I clearly don't think it's bad value the value doesn't stem from the reward but being able to support a game that would otherwise not be possible without crowd funding. There are plenty of reasons to back the project but $20 now for a game years down the line as good value for money? I'm sorry but that's just dumb.

 @WeWerePirates  @melkathi  @SergioMX

 Yeah, 6% of someone's income, that will really cause some financial stress for someone.  I don't know about you but most people leave money aside each month to pay for entertainment.

Well if you take everyone that donated $20, that is 69% of the total number of backers.  They are funding 45% the the original 1.1m that was required to produce the game, I'm not including the stretch goals.

So if you are saying that for 31% of backers in this particular kickstarter, the value may not be there, than I agree!   Anyone pledging above the $20 amount (for the $25 and $35 backers it's too early to tell), this is might not be a good value...but again for the vast majority of backers, it is a good value.

@Gooeykat@melkathi@SergioMX

At time of hitting fully funded only about 19,000 of the $20. Funding about 33% off the top of my head. Now they are all sold funding $500,000 out of $1,450,000. A bit over 33%. Add up the other packages that are close to retail you still find less than half with most of the backers accounted for. A majority of the funding comes from a small minority of backers.

As for your minimum wage earner a 16 year old living with their parents with no or token outgoings working part time on minimum wage probably has more disposable income than a lot of people working full time. Some one on minimum wage, if they work a 40 hour week (not sure what the average is in the US but both the US minimum wage and labour laws are awful) that's about 6% of their income before tax.

I'm not arguing that $20 is more than most people can afford though it is certainly more than a lot of people can afford. It is however more than most people should throw away casually on a regular basis and even as entertainment budget it can go a lot further than a game that will PROBABLY be out in over a year and SHOULD be good.

 @WeWerePirates  @Gooeykat  @melkathi  @SergioMX

"The fact is that funding on Kickstarter is usually awful value for money for backers."

There are around 25K backers at the $20 that will receive a copy of the game (they are providing 45% of the backing for this game).  It's not a bad deal for them at all.  $20 is not a huge investment for anyone with a job.  The minimum here in the US is $8.25 an hour, so with with two and half hours of labor, the average 16 year old can afford to get a copy of this game.  Again, very low risk for anyone with a job to get a copy of the game.

As for the higher levels, yes of course, the risk increases the more you pledge but those number are small fraction of the total.

 @Gooeykat  @melkathi  @SergioMX I didn't say it was an investment what I said is the reward packages are bad value for what you pay (in part because of risk) AND SO the reason to back even the lower amounts is to support the game. As I wrote in response to another comment if supporting the game isn't the motivation and you have the patience to wait for it to come out then you will get a much better deal waiting for it to go on sale on steam without the risk of the game never being made and having a fair idea whether it's any good or not.

If you look at my original post you'll see I show there is a small minority backing with on average $250. I don't think $250 is "a very small amount of money for most people". People paying under or about retail prices are producing less than half the funding. It's that minority that generated most of the money when it was near fully funded. I didn't argue the similar to retail cost crowd will go, it's that the big spender backers may lose their appetite and if that happens that will significantly decrease the amounts of money crowd funding can generate.

As for only being a worry for some one under 16, trust me, for most people in the real world casually throwing away even $20 quickly adds up let alone $250.

 @WeWerePirates  @melkathi  @SergioMX I appreciate your opinion but must disagree, I would be willing to bet that 99% of the backers not see this as "investment" and are in no way upset that they won't get a "share" of the profits.  This is not a IPO of Facebook, it is game that once released will generate some profit to cover the costs and will fade.  The backers are guaranteed a copy of the game, plus addtional items based on your level of money you kick in.  If you are saying that this is more risky than say a pre-order, than of course yes, there is a higher risk.  But then again, we are talking about a very small amount of money for most people.  Maybe not for someone under the age of 16 but for most people who have a job, this isnt a huge financial risk.

 @melkathi  @SergioMX Thanks :)

To be honest I hadn't realised the comment was so long because I wrote it pretty quickly!