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So... Where's the Sonic 3 love?

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Wario_man

May 18, 2012 3:38 pm GMT
SEGA seem to think Sonic 3 was a mistake and so they want to avoid it and anything relating to it at all costs. That (awesome) style of game obviously isn't the direction they want to go in and they'd rather you and everyone else pretended it didn't exist.
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MrDeePay

May 20, 2012 1:17 pm GMT
From: Wario_man | #021
SEGA seem to think Sonic 3 was a mistake and so they want to avoid it and anything relating to it at all costs. That (awesome) style of game obviously isn't the direction they want to go in and they'd rather you and everyone else pretended it didn't exist.

Or maybe because Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are considered to be one game.
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Chilly82

May 23, 2012 6:36 pm GMT
MrDeePay posted...
From: Wario_man | #021
SEGA seem to think Sonic 3 was a mistake and so they want to avoid it and anything relating to it at all costs. That (awesome) style of game obviously isn't the direction they want to go in and they'd rather you and everyone else pretended it didn't exist.

Or maybe because Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are considered to be one game.

No they aren't.
F0Xhole

May 28, 2012 8:52 am GMT
^ Among the general Sonic community they are, not to mention that you need the two combined together to play through the true ending. They are two parts of the same game, and they are more interconnected than the Sonic 4 Episodes.
sic005

Jun 7, 2012 2:37 am GMT
Chilly82 posted...
MrDeePay posted...
From: Wario_man | #021
SEGA seem to think Sonic 3 was a mistake and so they want to avoid it and anything relating to it at all costs. That (awesome) style of game obviously isn't the direction they want to go in and they'd rather you and everyone else pretended it didn't exist.

Or maybe because Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are considered to be one game.

No they aren't.

Hyper Sonic disagrees with you.

I loved s3&k, I played it through on sunday for the first time in a year or two. It made me nostalg' so I went out and brought generations... So far I'm a bit disappointed, gameplay is pretty glitchy and they really did forget the classics after the first few levels. I hated seaside hill, it was the most frustrating level I've ever played in any sonic game. It would've been awesome to see final chase from SA2 but the Shadow boss was pretty cool. My only real gripe with the newer sonic games is the menu music, unleashed with it's elevator music and now generations with elevator music versions of the level theme.

But I agree with OP, more sonic 3 would have been awesome

/rant
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MrDeePay

Jun 9, 2012 11:36 am GMT
Chilly82 posted...
MrDeePay posted...
From: Wario_man | #021
SEGA seem to think Sonic 3 was a mistake and so they want to avoid it and anything relating to it at all costs. That (awesome) style of game obviously isn't the direction they want to go in and they'd rather you and everyone else pretended it didn't exist.

Or maybe because Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are considered to be one game.

No they aren't.

Going by the general community (and seemingly SEGA themselves with this game), they say the two are considered to be one. Which I find funny since when this game rolled along, many nostalgia fans suddenly broke the games into two and wanted something from S3 AND SK, ignoring any 3-3-3 balance that would be disrupted.
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Chilly82

Jun 9, 2012 3:12 pm GMT
MrDeePay posted...
Chilly82 posted...
MrDeePay posted...
From: Wario_man | #021
SEGA seem to think Sonic 3 was a mistake and so they want to avoid it and anything relating to it at all costs. That (awesome) style of game obviously isn't the direction they want to go in and they'd rather you and everyone else pretended it didn't exist.

Or maybe because Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are considered to be one game.

No they aren't.

Going by the general community (and seemingly SEGA themselves with this game), they say the two are considered to be one. Which I find funny since when this game rolled along, many nostalgia fans suddenly broke the games into two and wanted something from S3 AND SK, ignoring any 3-3-3 balance that would be disrupted.

3-3-3 balanace? Who the heck would care if one era had more levels than an other?

Secondly, Sega themselves admit that the two are not the same when they label Sky Sanctuary as a game from "Sonic and Knuckles" in the end credits.
roo10158

Jun 10, 2012 9:17 pm GMT
Chilly82 posted...
3-3-3 balanace? Who the heck would care if one era had more levels than an other?

Secondly, Sega themselves admit that the two are not the same when they label Sky Sanctuary as a game from "Sonic and Knuckles" in the end credits.

sorry, it is a known fact that sonic 3 and sonic and knuckles are two parts of the same game. Period.

It was divided into two cartridges because of cartridge space and time constraints.

Yes, they could have broken the 3-3-3 balance, but it would do nothing but tick people off. It wouldn't be fair to the other two eras (thus, the fans of the other eras as well) for one era to get more content than the others.

Why they said S&K instead of S3&K in the credits is unkown, it could be something as simple as an oversight.
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Chilly82

Jun 11, 2012 3:31 pm GMT
roo10158 posted...
Chilly82 posted...
3-3-3 balanace? Who the heck would care if one era had more levels than an other?

Secondly, Sega themselves admit that the two are not the same when they label Sky Sanctuary as a game from "Sonic and Knuckles" in the end credits.

sorry, it is a known fact that sonic 3 and sonic and knuckles are two parts of the same game. Period.

It was divided into two cartridges because of cartridge space and time constraints.

Yes, they could have broken the 3-3-3 balance, but it would do nothing but tick people off. It wouldn't be fair to the other two eras (thus, the fans of the other eras as well) for one era to get more content than the others.

Why they said S&K instead of S3&K in the credits is unkown, it could be something as simple as an oversight.

Oversight? LOL. Wrong, Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were supposed to be one big point but it didn't happen due to time constraints and cartridge spaces. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is only a bonus. The events of Sonic 3 and Knuckles are non-canon. Why can't people get this through their heads?

It was left in the credits for the reason I said it was. Sky Sanctuary is a Sonic and Knuckles stage, not a "Sonic 3 and Knuckles stage" and Sega don't believe Sonic 3 and Knuckles is a real game, and they completely ignored Sonic 3.

And who on Earth would care if the Genesis era got more representation anyway? What else would they put in to even up the modern and Dreamcast eras? A Shadow the Hedgehog level?
roo10158

Jun 11, 2012 5:51 pm GMT
Chilly82 posted...
Oversight? LOL. Wrong, Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were supposed to be one big point but it didn't happen due to time constraints and cartridge spaces. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is only a bonus. The events of Sonic 3 and Knuckles are non-canon. Why can't people get this through their heads?

It was left in the credits for the reason I said it was. Sky Sanctuary is a Sonic and Knuckles stage, not a "Sonic 3 and Knuckles stage" and Sega don't believe Sonic 3 and Knuckles is a real game, and they completely ignored Sonic 3.

And who on Earth would care if the Genesis era got more representation anyway? What else would they put in to even up the modern and Dreamcast eras? A Shadow the Hedgehog level?

1. Sorry, they are one game. They may be split into, but they still are one game. It is just like sonic 4's episodes, sold separately, but are still both sonic 4. And no, the s3&k story is not non-cannon. If what you said is true, the death egg would have blown up then would magically be on top of Lava Reef. S3&K, which has the full Sonic 3 experience has the canon event, and keeps the death egg intact, thus
not having the huge plot hole.

2. If they are supposed to be two games, s&k would not have had the lock-on technology. Plus the inclusion of knuckles only sections in sonic 3 levels shows they are supposed to be one. Otherwise, playing as knuckles in S3&K would be like playing sonic 2 with knuckles, nothing being different. S&K is more like DLC of today, an expansion pack for sonic 3

3. I don't know what you are talking about. Sega has never said it isn't real, plus they still include it in sonic compilations, including the xbla arcade releases.

4. Read my post. It would be unfair for one era to get more than the others.
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Forte_EX

Jun 11, 2012 8:08 pm GMT
Sky Sanctuary is listed as a Sonic and Knuckles level because the game it is from was sold as Sonic and Knuckles. Sonic and Knuckles is the second part to Sonic the Hedgehog 3. It was supposed to be one game but it was sold as two.

Lock-on wasn't just a flimsy bonus for Sonic 3, it was the developers allowing for the complete game to be played through the two cartridges that they had sold. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is Sonic 3 "Complete". Therefore Sky Sanctuary, as part of Sonic and Knuckles which is in turn part of the Sonic 3 series, is part of Sonic the Hedgehog 3.

More to the point, Sega wouldn't go as far as to make a glaring oversight twice: remember that Mushroom Hill is the S3&K representative for the DS version. They've been pretty blunt about it, honestly. Sonic the Hedgehog 3 as it was released in 1994 is one half of Sonic 3. Sonic and Knuckles is the other. The aesthetics are the same, the level structure is basically the same, the sprites are the same, and so on. The level select makes it brutally obvious as well, if that wasn't enough.
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Chilly82

Jun 12, 2012 4:04 am GMT
roo10158 posted...
Chilly82 posted...
Oversight? LOL. Wrong, Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were supposed to be one big point but it didn't happen due to time constraints and cartridge spaces. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is only a bonus. The events of Sonic 3 and Knuckles are non-canon. Why can't people get this through their heads?

It was left in the credits for the reason I said it was. Sky Sanctuary is a Sonic and Knuckles stage, not a "Sonic 3 and Knuckles stage" and Sega don't believe Sonic 3 and Knuckles is a real game, and they completely ignored Sonic 3.

And who on Earth would care if the Genesis era got more representation anyway? What else would they put in to even up the modern and Dreamcast eras? A Shadow the Hedgehog level?

1. Sorry, they are one game. They may be split into, but they still are one game. It is just like sonic 4's episodes, sold separately, but are still both sonic 4. And no, the s3&k story is not non-cannon. If what you said is true, the death egg would have blown up then would magically be on top of Lava Reef. S3&K, which has the full Sonic 3 experience has the canon event, and keeps the death egg intact, thus
not having the huge plot hole.

2. If they are supposed to be two games, s&k would not have had the lock-on technology. Plus the inclusion of knuckles only sections in sonic 3 levels shows they are supposed to be one. Otherwise, playing as knuckles in S3&K would be like playing sonic 2 with knuckles, nothing being different. S&K is more like DLC of today, an expansion pack for sonic 3

3. I don't know what you are talking about. Sega has never said it isn't real, plus they still include it in sonic compilations, including the xbla arcade releases.

4. Read my post. It would be unfair for one era to get more than the others.

It is a video game, not a government? Who wants fair if it means a less enjoyable game? Should have been a zone for Sonic 3.

And sorry dude, Sonic fighting Big Arm on the Launch Base is canon, therefore Sonic 3 and Knuckles is non-canon.
roo10158

Jun 12, 2012 6:52 am GMT
Chilly82 posted...
It is a video game, not a government? Who wants fair if it means a less enjoyable game? Should have been a zone for Sonic 3.

And sorry dude, Sonic fighting Big Arm on the Launch Base is canon, therefore Sonic 3 and Knuckles is non-canon.

They removed big arm for sonic because it would be easier for some players to get to mushroom hill. (want proof: knuckles' playthrough is the hard mode, and it kept big arm) That has nothing to do with canon. If you can't accept that s3&k is the true sonic 3, then go ahead and believe what you want to believe. But the truth stands, and 99.999% of the fanbase agrees with s3&k being the true sonic 3.

But if you still can't get it through your head, read this and especially read the stuff after the first big quote:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3

And if that still doesn't help, ill just let you believe what you think is the truth, which everyone (including those who made the game) says isn't.
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Chilly82

Jun 12, 2012 12:09 pm GMT
roo10158 posted...
Chilly82 posted...
It is a video game, not a government? Who wants fair if it means a less enjoyable game? Should have been a zone for Sonic 3.

And sorry dude, Sonic fighting Big Arm on the Launch Base is canon, therefore Sonic 3 and Knuckles is non-canon.

They removed big arm for sonic because it would be easier for some players to get to mushroom hill. (want proof: knuckles' playthrough is the hard mode, and it kept big arm) That has nothing to do with canon. If you can't accept that s3&k is the true sonic 3, then go ahead and believe what you want to believe. But the truth stands, and 99.999% of the fanbase agrees with s3&k being the true sonic 3.

But if you still can't get it through your head, read this and especially read the stuff after the first big quote:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3

And if that still doesn't help, ill just let you believe what you think is the truth, which everyone (including those who made the game) says isn't.

You are in the vast minority my friend. While S3&K is what the game was supposed to be, it isn't what the game is. S3&K is just a non-canon bonus. Also, everyone knows Hyper Sonic is non-canon.
killered3

Jun 12, 2012 12:59 pm GMT
To hell with Sonic 3, they didn't put a level from Sonic CD! Sonic 3 wasn't even that good.
roo10158

Jun 12, 2012 2:48 pm GMT
Chilly82 posted...
roo10158 posted...
Chilly82 posted...
It is a video game, not a government? Who wants fair if it means a less enjoyable game? Should have been a zone for Sonic 3.

And sorry dude, Sonic fighting Big Arm on the Launch Base is canon, therefore Sonic 3 and Knuckles is non-canon.

They removed big arm for sonic because it would be easier for some players to get to mushroom hill. (want proof: knuckles' playthrough is the hard mode, and it kept big arm) That has nothing to do with canon. If you can't accept that s3&k is the true sonic 3, then go ahead and believe what you want to believe. But the truth stands, and 99.999% of the fanbase agrees with s3&k being the true sonic 3.

But if you still can't get it through your head, read this and especially read the stuff after the first big quote:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3

And if that still doesn't help, ill just let you believe what you think is the truth, which everyone (including those who made the game) says isn't.

You are in the vast minority my friend. While S3&K is what the game was supposed to be, it isn't what the game is. S3&K is just a non-canon bonus. Also, everyone knows Hyper Sonic is non-canon.

You are wrong my friend. Sonic 3 & knuckles IS sonic 3 complete. You are the ONLY person here and the only person in any sonic board that says that s3&k isn't sonic 3. But i'll let you believe what yu think is true, no matter how wrong it is. You are right, hyper was just added in, but that does not change the fact that s&k is the second half to sonic 3, and not just a random game. You just have to buy it separately just like you have to pay for each half of sonic 4.

The sound test in sonic 3 standalone is proof enough. It includes mushroom hill through doomsday.
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Chilly82

Jun 12, 2012 3:19 pm GMT
roo10158 posted...
Chilly82 posted...
roo10158 posted...
Chilly82 posted...
It is a video game, not a government? Who wants fair if it means a less enjoyable game? Should have been a zone for Sonic 3.

And sorry dude, Sonic fighting Big Arm on the Launch Base is canon, therefore Sonic 3 and Knuckles is non-canon.

They removed big arm for sonic because it would be easier for some players to get to mushroom hill. (want proof: knuckles' playthrough is the hard mode, and it kept big arm) That has nothing to do with canon. If you can't accept that s3&k is the true sonic 3, then go ahead and believe what you want to believe. But the truth stands, and 99.999% of the fanbase agrees with s3&k being the true sonic 3.

But if you still can't get it through your head, read this and especially read the stuff after the first big quote:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3

And if that still doesn't help, ill just let you believe what you think is the truth, which everyone (including those who made the game) says isn't.

You are in the vast minority my friend. While S3&K is what the game was supposed to be, it isn't what the game is. S3&K is just a non-canon bonus. Also, everyone knows Hyper Sonic is non-canon.

You are wrong my friend. Sonic 3 & knuckles IS sonic 3 complete. You are the ONLY person here and the only person in any sonic board that says that s3&k isn't sonic 3. But i'll let you believe what yu think is true, no matter how wrong it is. You are right, hyper was just added in, but that does not change the fact that s&k is the second half to sonic 3, and not just a random game. You just have to buy it separately just like you have to pay for each half of sonic 4.

The sound test in sonic 3 standalone is proof enough. It includes mushroom hill through doomsday.

Um but were those levels in Sonic 3? No they weren't. They were deleted due to time constraints and memory limitations.
DavCube

Jun 14, 2012 10:00 am GMT
Chilly82 posted...
roo10158 posted...
Chilly82 posted...
roo10158 posted...
Chilly82 posted...
It is a video game, not a government? Who wants fair if it means a less enjoyable game? Should have been a zone for Sonic 3.

And sorry dude, Sonic fighting Big Arm on the Launch Base is canon, therefore Sonic 3 and Knuckles is non-canon.

They removed big arm for sonic because it would be easier for some players to get to mushroom hill. (want proof: knuckles' playthrough is the hard mode, and it kept big arm) That has nothing to do with canon. If you can't accept that s3&k is the true sonic 3, then go ahead and believe what you want to believe. But the truth stands, and 99.999% of the fanbase agrees with s3&k being the true sonic 3.

But if you still can't get it through your head, read this and especially read the stuff after the first big quote:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3

And if that still doesn't help, ill just let you believe what you think is the truth, which everyone (including those who made the game) says isn't.

You are in the vast minority my friend. While S3&K is what the game was supposed to be, it isn't what the game is. S3&K is just a non-canon bonus. Also, everyone knows Hyper Sonic is non-canon.

You are wrong my friend. Sonic 3 & knuckles IS sonic 3 complete. You are the ONLY person here and the only person in any sonic board that says that s3&k isn't sonic 3. But i'll let you believe what yu think is true, no matter how wrong it is. You are right, hyper was just added in, but that does not change the fact that s&k is the second half to sonic 3, and not just a random game. You just have to buy it separately just like you have to pay for each half of sonic 4.

The sound test in sonic 3 standalone is proof enough. It includes mushroom hill through doomsday.

Um but were those levels in Sonic 3? No they weren't. They were deleted due to time constraints and memory limitations.

...Your point being? They were ORIGINALLY INTENDED to be one game. Sega always treated them that way. The fans always treated them that way. The level select of Sonic 3 has some Knuckles levels in there, despite the fact you couldn't play them.

"Baw Hyper-Sonic non-canon, it's true even though i give absolutely no reasoning for it whatsoever, you're all stupid." I'm sorry, it's YOU who is in the vast minority here.
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Phantom_Nook

Jun 16, 2012 5:47 pm GMT
killered3 posted...
To hell with Sonic 3, they didn't put a level from Sonic CD! Sonic 3 wasn't even that good.

Stardust Speedway.
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Chilly82

Jun 17, 2012 1:44 pm GMT
Um, your opinion doesn't constitute "the fans". And you are confusing whats intended as whats fact. The Germans intended on keeping the peace with the British during WWI, doesn't mean it worked out that way.