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  • Member since: Jun 16, 2003
  • Last online: 06/18/13 1:49 pm PT

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1Nov 12

"She doesn't look like a gamer"

That was something I saw said in Gamespot's Twitch chat last week. To me that quote just seems kind of absurd, as if females that play games must look a certain way and anything else must be treated with suspicion. Anytime the issue of sexism gets brought up on a lot of games sites (like this one), some of the comments get pretty terrible.

It's hard to say how it got as bad as it is and there is far more to say than I could possibly do so in any reasonable amount of time, so instead I'm just going to try to just talk about a couple of specific things.

360Headset.jpg

Within the gaming communities themselves there need to be mechanisms in place to prevent abuse being hurled across voice chat and people just abusing the communication tools that each of the platforms offer. XBL has been the prime example of this but it's hardly isolated to just there. And I think it goes beyond anonymity and usernames, I think something like that would see some improvement but there are plenty of sites that do have good communities that allow for only online handles.

The suggestion of lifetime bans doesn't sound too terrible, it would give some sort of consequence for one's actions. That wouldn't stop them from making a new account (you could disable it at a console level, but there are problems with that when it comes to people buying second hand) but given how much gets tied to those accounts now, achievements, DLC downloadable games it would definitely be a consequence to being abusive on a given platform. While you could make an argument that it might be a bit harsh a punishment, I think that it should at least be a potential tool to be used.

In the less controversial tools that platform holders could use they could put in just easier tools to mute certain players. If a certain person is getting muted by every player they come across they should probably just start off games muted by default. Just taking away their megaphone would do a great deal to improve just the overall environment in online games. There is something to be said for trying to promote people not being jerks in your communities, but I don't really have any ideas on that particular front.

Now onto the actual game side of things, women are remarkably poorly represented in games. That's not to say there aren't female characters, but there's a remarkable lack of diversity amongst those characters and only a small handful of them are actually strong characters. More often than not they're throwaway characters designed as a plot device, scenery or just as a sexual object.

An individual instance of any of this stuff wouldn't be so terrible by themselves but the fact that they are far and away the majority of what we have is really quite bad. As a whole we have managed to create a whole bunch of female characters that are little more than objects for sexual fantasy, from skimpy outfits to completely over sexualised body images. Yes there are unrealistically proportioned male characters as well, but there exists the diversity of what a male character can look like and also they aren't made to look that way for the purposes of sexual fantasy but power fantasy.

206399-alyx_car.jpg

This in turn makes a lot of games just much less appealing to a lot of women. When you have characters that are little more than walking breasts, it's not hard to figure out why they aren't characters people identify with or memorable. Think about the most memorable female characters in games, Samus and Alyx Vance immediately come to mind along with a handful of others. They were full characters in and of themselves and that's what makes them awesome. But there aren't enough of them, women make up half the population on the planet we should be doing better than this.

I suspect that a lot of this has to do with the fact that the majority of game creators happen to be male. Here in the UK the last I heard we have a massive 12% of game developers being women. That's fairly significantly down from many years ago, but that's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it. I think we should be having a larger influx of new game developers coming out soon through newer games courses so that should give some push but I'm not holding my breath for something drastic.

Part of getting more women in games development is just getting more women to be more active in games and games communities. That doesn't mean that we need to start making games specifically for women, in fact that philosophy has frequently backfired for just making utter rubbish. But by making the games less exclusionary in nature and by increasing the diversity in the games that we make. If developers keep making nothing but male power fantasy games we're in for a pretty big uphill battle.

So just a last open letter to game makers, don't make the pandering BS that so frequently gets put into games. I get that it sells, but it's cheap. Your game might be great, despite your skimpy female armour that protects exactly zero vital organs. It wouldn't be the first time and it almost certainly won't be the last. We can do better than that and yes there is sexist behaviour and themes in other media, but just because that's true doesn't mean that we can't do just a little bit to make our little corner better.

86 comments
DSkinMasque
DSkinMasque

DOUBLE STANDARD. Not all Men are perfect bodied 6'5 guys who are sensitive/heroes/roids either right? Males are (almost) always these slim attractive dudes or beef tanks that save the world I don't see anybody bitching about that but when it is a "hot" or skimpy chick you have all these feminists/confused men that bitch about images on a videogame...because GOD FORBID you set a high unrealistic standard of beauty that makes me feel like shit. (PS IT IS A VIDEOGAME IT IS NOT REAL GO WILD) I don't feel bad I'm not in my prime anymore and playing games with huge fucking guys doesn't bring it out on me, so I don't get this type of mentality.  Also I see the correlation between these topics and the gurl gamer topic/blogs from before, don't people get tired of talking about the same shit over and over again?

 

 

ljlntx
ljlntx

The games I choose to play usually contain a decent attempt at a real plot, and not just randomly killing everything in sight.  Because of this, I depend on characters that I can in some way identify with.  They don't necessarily have to be female, but that does place me in the game more.  I am more than happy though to run around as Ezio Auditore da Firenze or Commander Shepherd.  Yes, a game with a female lead will catch my eye where it may not have if it was strictly male, and I have a better chance at becoming a series follower because of that, but it is not required.  

 

I don't thing the issue is with the actual games, but with the attitudes of those playing the games.  I only ran into a few bad apples, those players who take the adrenaline rush to seriously and allow their immaturity ruin the game for others.  I mute them and move on.

 

I think I get more shock and awe at the fact that a mother/grandmother is a gamer and not because I am a female.

gbrading
gbrading moderator moderator

Goodness a lot of comments!

 

I think that sexism in video games is a manifestation of the continuing sexism in society. Until we can eliminate it from society, it will sadly remain endemic in video games and film.

willzihang
willzihang

We have a good many games that depict everything immaturely, not least of all the male characters. Let's look at Gears of War: how are the men portrayed? As idiotic, violent, hyper-macho thugs, a vile contortion of masculinity if I've ever seen one. Like-games will also feature childish stories and, indeed, scantily clad mindless women. Now let's look at mature game: Half Life 2, Freeman isn't inherently violent, but an intelligent scientist. Indeed, you mention Alyx Vance, the female hero in the game, she is not scantily clad, she is sophisticated and independent. My point is you won't see a mature game that depicts everything 'realistically', and with good moral sense; yet it feature objectified female characters.

willzihang
willzihang

We have a good many games that depict everything immaturely, not least of all the male characters. Let's look at Gears of War: how are the men portrayed? As idiotic, violent, hyper-macho thugs, a vile contortion of masculinity if I've ever seen one. Like-games will also feature childish stories and, indeed, scantily clad mindless women. Now let's look at mature game: Half Life 2, Freeman isn't inherently violent, but an intelligent scientist. Indeed, you mention Alyx Vance, the female hero in the game, she is not scantily clad, she is sophisticated and independent. My point is you won't see a mature game that depicts everything 'realistically', and with good moral sense; yet it feature objectified female characters.

This comment has been deleted

jcknapier711
jcknapier711

 @Suikogaiden >>>Gender equality isn't about eliminating the differences between men and women it's about accepting them.

 

No, gender equality is about enforcing it.  It's about removing any and all differences between men and women.  If you can't see that, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Clynol
Clynol

Fat Anti Cave Troll Potion.

 

Royial20
Royial20 like.author.displayName 1 Like

I don't know what the real answer for any of this is all i know is what my opinion and feelings are.I play video games to enjoy them, i'm a human being and fully capeable of knowing reality from fiction. Characters in movies or video games are a representation of ideals be them good or bad ones. You can have character be Shepard from Mass Effect with all the characteristics of a hero be him a Paragon or Renegade or someone like Leisure Suit Larry. Guess what i'm trying to say is that video games and movies should be enjoyed and its up to us as humans to teach each other the difference. Nothing in the world is really fair but its been the theme of humanity to fight for things be them ideals or materials.Men can fight for what they believe that's fair, Women are also capable too and I think if they want to change the way things are that more of them step up as they've been doing and do it themselves. Men can't know what's best for women the way women do and vice versa and we shouldn't try to fight their battles for them, hopefully the goal of equality will keep it from being even more unfair just in different ways.

I_ArCh0n_I
I_ArCh0n_I like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I think this article is sexist, suggesting that the skimpy females are there only to attract men. My wife is also much more inclined to play games with attractive females and in MMOs, will often use this "skimpy" armour that you described. It is a video game it is not supposed to be entirely realistic it is there to be enjoyed and if some of that enjoyment is because of out naturally evolved instincts to prefer looking at somebody attractive then so be it.

 

Regarding online banter, why is it only men that complain about sexism, I have never seen a woman complain that people were sexist over XBL etc, they just realise it is a joke and get over it.

 

I think this campaign against sexism was invented by men so they sound all protective and eventually get laid through sympathy sex.

urayanya
urayanya

It's not because most of the game developers are men but it's because majority of video game players are men....some men even play games that are supposed to be for girls...... and whats the best way to attract males? install hot-girls in the game. In game adds alone, when a guy looks at a game poster with a sexy warrior on it... the poster alone will make him curious, thus, he will check the game. and when he founds that the game can promise him good game play and more sexy stuff, his curiosity even rises and before he knows it...his addicted to the game already.

I don't want to agree  but the results thus proves it that " sex really sells" . and not just game developers but many businessmen are using it.

SoreThumbsBill
SoreThumbsBill

 @urayanya 

 

So, you are insinuating that games only have persons with vaginas to attract male audience because we go gaga when we see a scantily dressed person who has a vagina.

 

Thinking like that makes you a sexist!

so_hai
so_hai like.author.displayName 1 Like

If women aren't portrayed properly in games, then it seems to me that the only people able to make that change are women themselves. Are many women in in production roles of video game development, are they inclined to change the shape of the market if they are?

 

Men are also portrayed ridiculously as well - it's just that we're used to it.

Vrygar777
Vrygar777

 @so_hai I like you're final thought. Men are portrayed pretty ridiculously aren't they. Always this muscle-bound macho tough guy (most of the time for American developers) that's unstoppable. And heck, even Japanese developers have their own tough guys (Ken, Ryu Hayabusa, etc.)

ragnarockw
ragnarockw

I think you have missed the point games shouldn't be about whats in them or not or who plays them and how they act but if you are having fun playing them.

True some games take things too far but if females or males dont like them or whats in them Dont play them.

As far as people's behaviour in games you will never be able to change that.People behind keyboards will always be big and brave they can do and say what they like all we can do to minimise the problem as you said with bans or something like that.

 

And just cause game designers might be sexist or perverted dont mean the male gamer is.

I played lara croft game's and didn't even notice her chest till i saw a game mag mention them.

I would like to point out i am not saying game designers are sexist.

vannacut
vannacut

He didnt look like a gamer, was over 60 years old, white hair ,bald in middle,  clean shaven, searching thru the pc section of the games, looking for 'adventure' genre....

tehwatever
tehwatever

I think the problem lies with not giving mature female gamers what they want.

fadersdream
fadersdream like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

Modern feminism is a ship without a captain. The majority of disparity has been addressed legally, but to make up the remaining dividend begins to encroach upon special interest needs.

Though I agree with a lot of what you've said there is a vast amount that is skipped or ignored. Not the least of which being the 1997 re-mold of Barbie which was a tragic flop, reflecting a general opinion on both sides of the gender line.

Do I think that sexism should be eliminated from the workplace? Almost entirely.

Do I think that it should be removed from media? Not at all.

Master chief doesn't have the body I am expected to have, but he does have the courage and the resistance to pain and fatigue. As does Wolverine and John Wayne.

Men take the blame for this but it is clearly shown to be the fault or desire of both sides. You can't fight human nature, especially if all you do is suppress joy.

l777l
l777l

 @fadersdream "You can't fight human nature, especially if all you do is suppress joy." Good.

l777l
l777l like.author.displayName 1 Like

Let's assume that heterosexual men enjoy looking at sexy women. Games offer an opportunity for that. This is not bad as such. Where's the harm? Men are able to separate much of fiction from reality. If and where there's not much depth to characters, it doesn't mean that men want that in real life. I doubt that the ideal men have in mind is a physically strong, relatively uneducated, relatively generic male "hero". They may enjoy some aspects of that within the confinement of fiction. What are depicted in games generally are not complete and ideal men that men want to be in real life, nor are these the women that men want women to be. But this means limits to the dangers entertainment poses for reality. Such a limit has been widely acknowledged for violence, but many vocal feminists seem to have a problem to acknowledge in the case of sex/sexuality.

Men want these products, other men want to create these products. The harm to women is limited. The fact that men don't create the products women want is neutral, on its face. Why would men - as individuals and as a group - have to create what women want (provide them with a benefit)? Do women have a right to that? Those who claim that they do must outline how this right came to be. This is not a natural right. If individual women want certain products they may create them for themselves. They may form groups to create them. (Especially, but no only, if women are as good as men are at each and every task. And if the demand for such products is indeed high, there's a opportunity to make a lot of money. Then take a risk, you feminists, and invest. Of course it is more comfortable to tell men to take risks and to do the work.) But they do not have a prima facie right to demand that men create what they demand (unless god made them princesses).

What we're currently facing is a number of feminists claiming that women should be allowed into the treehouse that men built and keep building. (I'm using that image because many feminists seem to like images of the "boys' club" type.) They've been allowed into the treehouse. Now they tell men what they may or may not do in the treehouse, how it should be decorated and furnished. Based on what right? And should men applaud this apparently rude behavior? Is it surprising when some react with anger to such arrogance and false sense of entitlement?

Within limits, it makes sense to make working environments sterile, to let women dictate what "hostile/unpleasant environments" are, and to turn them into neutral/benevolent ones. These limits are stricter when it comes to the private sphere (of entertainment). Feminists telling men what they are allowed to play is inherently questionable. Fortunately they so far haven't succeeded in turning football into a more friendly, less competitive and less physical version. Fortunately, they so far haven't succeeded in dictating that men have to go to ballett. Fortunately they haven't yet been allowed to dictate how many images of naked women men are allowed to look at per week.

I am for greater depth in games, for more complex characters and for diversity in gameplay experiences, characters, and story. But waging this as a war of/against sexism and insulting male gamers is the wrong general approach. And no, the fact that heterosexual men like to look at sexy, even naked. women, while they do not nearly as much like to look at sexy, especially naked, men does not constitute sexism. Heterosexuality is not sexist. Not even male heterosexuality.

ermhm
ermhm like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @l777l But, who exactly is waging a war, or insulting male gamers? Nobody is doing that. I understand you feel like your taste (our taste, male taste) is being questioned and judged, and that it made you angry enough to talk in lenght about it.  [ I too enjoy a lot of games that are being criticised here (criticised/analysed, not condemned), but I can acknowledge they are superficial and very one-sided.]  But consider this: nobody is attacking male gamers. What is happening is that some of the male and female gamers are wishing the majority to acknowledge the one-sidedness of entertainment industry, and express the hopes for more variety in the future. What happens? They get attacked by male (and female!) gamers that feel their tastes and worldviews are being attacked. The way you present it, it seems men built this world, and now some noisy women want to join the club without earning the right. Seriously? :D Oversimplification (a word I used in my previous reply to you here) is becoming an understatement. Nobody claims these 'sexist' games should stop being made (even if it was hypothetically possible, it would only lead to yet another kind of one-sided cultural monologue, to yet another hierarchy of the privileged and those less privileged). There most certainly is too much of male-perspective games though, when compared to the rest of what gaming has to offer. We can make and enjoy both, without shutting anyone up.

l777l
l777l

 @ermhm You did not understand my post. And you oversimplify it and reality. I'm not interesting in clarifying it for you. I'll only mention this: it's not anger that made me talk; accusing male gamers of sexism and misogyny where there is no sexism and is no misogygny is insulting; women should be free to respectfually express their wishes.     

l777l
l777l like.author.displayName 1 Like

"To me that quote just seems kind of absurd, as if females that play games must look a certain way and anything else must be treated with suspicion. Anytime the issue of sexism gets brought up on a lot of games sites (like this one), some of the comments get pretty terrible."

Right. Have you ever heard stereotypes about how male gamers "must" look? This isn't sexism, generally speaking. It's nerdism or whatever. Surely the hysterical must be able to come up with a name for it. 

ermhm
ermhm

Agreed on all points - great read! I like the ideas for dealing with people abusing the chat system. (Maybe a permanent chat ban would be enough... Imagine, they would get to keep all their achievements etc, but their account would be permanently muted, forever. No way to contact other players. Just play their games and hurl the insults at themselves. How to decide who deserves this kind of ban? Maybe have a scale, and if the person exhibits intolerable amounts of disrespect towards other players enough times, Mute ON. Hah!) And of course, you are spot on when adressing the lack of female developers. Please, women of the world, get your creative energy going and make some awesome games ^^

rinto_tinto
rinto_tinto like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

"She doesn't look like a gamer" can just as easily be "He doesn't look like a gamer". I'm not saying there isn't a stereotype but that these sorts of judgments are not necessarily based on the gender of the judged. I'm not attacking the content of your argument and I do agree that there is sexism in gaming but I think your initial piece of evidence is flawed.

Rizer
Rizer

 @rinto_tinto I agree, whoever said that is follow a stereotype in their mind's eye. It might be on past experience, it might be based upon what they imagined. Reguardless, it's an internal issue of the one who said that.

lim_ak
lim_ak

 @Rizer  @rinto_tinto I didn't mean that to be a centre piece of the argument. I had meant it just as a tonal frame of reference for the rest of the article. But the phrase itself has certain connotations associated with it, particularly in it's usage in the gaming community. It's used far and away more frequently with regards to women than men. It's not the most awful example of sexism that I could have used, the phrase and how prevalent that attitude is in some gaming communities is indicative of a larger issue. Which is one of the reasons I liked it so much as an opening line. 

Billcimus
Billcimus

 @lim_ak  @l777l  @Rizer  @rinto_tinto In other words: games aren't sexist, people are (generally prejudiced). The reason why people display it more openly is because in gaming they are safe behind a monitor (and a copy of the daily mail) and more importantly, anonymous. These people hold these views all the time, but they just think it in real life, rather than act on it.

For example: We all know the common mentality of single-sex mobs, it doesn't take long for the opposite sex degrading to start and the "We don't need bloody women/men" attitudes to stir. It's called being a tribal species-- "We in big group, we look same, others different, beat with clubs" It's one of our more unfortunate primate attributes, warped further by our insistence on thinking about it and applying 'reasoning' to it. We should be teaching people how to tame these instincts, not giving them fuel by announcing 'offense for one gender', and encouraging division; troubled people like this will be made worse for it.

Billcimus
Billcimus

 @lim_ak  @l777l  @Rizer  @rinto_tinto The point I mean to make is your argument is a sound one, but it only applies to immature people that don't know any better anyway, and they would be reactionary and prejudiced to anyone, for any reason (I use the term reason at its most loose) that might stray into their undeveloped brains (if they had the confidence to, face-to-face; which I somewhat doubt)-- in other words gaming isn't the root of the problem, but people who are educationally-challenged. People who are open-minded and treat others with respect, would not suddenly drop their morals when playing a game and dismiss people based solely on their chromosomal arrangement.

lim_ak
lim_ak

 @Billcimus  @l777l  @Rizer  @rinto_tinto I was specifically talking about my opening statement. Casual sexism is still a form of sexism, the off hand nature of it makes it seem like not a big deal to a lot of people, but that does have some implications outside of off hand comments and reinforces the idea that women aren't welcome in gaming communities, which is kind of not okay by my book. 

Billcimus
Billcimus like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @l777l  @lim_ak  @Rizer  @rinto_tinto Indeed, I think the trouble is you have almost misdirected yourself from the real point-- that the issue is stupid people. I wouldn't say we live in sexist societies because we have some neanderthals treat women poorly (and it's a safe bet to assume they also get into fights a lot and mouth off about anyone from another country). The points you try to make unfairly cast views on the majority of people and the consensus as to what's considered acceptable in these communities.

l777l
l777l

 @lim_ak  @Rizer  @rinto_tinto It's not the center piece but a version of the center piece. Since the sexism that is associated with this version is not as substantial as you imply, the sexism associated with your center piece (whichever that is) is probably likewise not as substantial as you imply.

Rizer
Rizer

I never cared about the gender of other gamers,  since other gamers online are almost always faceless strangers and co-op always seems to be among friends. I'm a guy, though, so most of this stuff about content (women still having sexy roles, lack of gender equality among main characters, the insults online of middle school boys in their phases...etc.) might be something I never bothered thinking to deeply about, since I'm older. But if these are worries, I'm not sure anything but time will shift it. Game companies want games to sell so most will follow the trends, thankfully trends will change as the audiences changes over time. In fact, if you've been around as long as I have you'll see they already have if you compare far back enough. I'm not sure what the female gaming community is really expecting, but a lot of games I play have emotional plot diversity in both gender roles now compared to the past and this will only continue as game audiences get older and get bore of the "same old same old". 

 

As far as sexist behavior from individuals go, I despise it coming from ether gender ( yes, females say stupid crud about boys too. Gossip that people can over hear is gender neutral no matter how many pretend that it isn't.), but I'm not sure how that will change since new generations with dreams of dominance and delusions of one being more superior than the other are be born all the time before the old one matures of it. 

mfouad
mfouad

should respect women 

pokecharm
pokecharm

to me your premise suggests a vicious cycle.  Women get treated by gaming and then don't want to come back - or at least that could be one of the outcomes...I think the idea is solid though :)

lim_ak
lim_ak

 @pokecharm Vicious cycle is certainly an unfortunate possibility. Not the only possibility thankfully but it is by far and away my biggest worry when it comes to this stuff. 

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ilantis
ilantis like.author.displayName 1 Like

I find interesting the point that more game developers should be female, it would be interesting to see a female director for a change.

gufberg
gufberg like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 8 Like

 @ilantis Why? Do you really think game developers hire people based on their gender? There shouldn't be more developers of any particular sex. Dont you get it? Their sex doesnt matter. Go for the most talented developers. They can be necrophilic transvestites for all i know - as long as they're good at what they do goddamnit. hiring more females 'on purpose' is just reinforcing your imaginary inequality. 

ilantis
ilantis

 @gufberg Dude dafuq is your problem ? calm the f**k down! I just said that since as matter of fact there are much less female developers than male it would be interesting to see more female devolepers and see what they can come up with, geez, don't put words in my mouth.

gufberg
gufberg like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ilantis  @Billcimus ouh .. In that case: I wasn't un-calm. I was just making a point. It wasn't my intention to 'attack' anyone if that is what you think. You raised a discussion - i discussed it. Not neccesarily as a critique of what you wrote.Can we be done with the semantic pedanticism now, folks? ;) 

ilantis
ilantis

 @Billcimus  @gufberg No dude, I was referring to "gufberg" in my first reply, not you. You replied to my reply which was directed to another user. I have confused you two because of the avatars in my second reply.

Billcimus
Billcimus

 @ilantis  @gufberg I didn't say you agreed with it, but you did raise the issue: hence the discussion. I was never specific in who I was criticising in my first response, I stated 'people think..'

ilantis
ilantis

 @Billcimus  @gufberg yea , and if we really want to be clear about what I've written before that I wrote "I find interesting the point that" I didn't say I agree -_-"

Billcimus
Billcimus

 @ilantis  @gufberg I didn't put any words in your mouth, this is just discussion: the purpose of forums. I have no problem at all here, and am not un-calm. But to criticise you a little, you did in fact say "more games developers SHOULD be female", this raises a point of discussion sir, very much relevant here.

Billcimus
Billcimus like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @gufberg  @ilantis Quite, quite. People - as a result of not thinking - envisage equality as being an enforced 50/50 divide in numbers. This is equal yes, but not equality. Now it might well be the case that exactly half of a 'team' are male, and half female, by chance-- but you can't strictly enforce it because it will most likely mean some people of higher talent have been discounted for another, because they aren't the right gender. Consider the simplicity of this; and consider why positive discrimination is only bad.

Wango_Tango
Wango_Tango

 @ilantis

 Halo 4 has a female director. As a result Cortana's boobs have never been bigger or more well defined.

lim_ak
lim_ak

 @Wango_Tango  @ilantis I have seen that and that could have happened for any number of reasons. The end result is all the same and disappointing that they felt the need to go and change the look of an existing character. I have suspicions that focus testing might have had have had a hand in it but no more than suspicions.  

Billcimus
Billcimus like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

I've seen the phrase "HE doesn't look like a gamer" utilised before, yet we don't consider that sexist. It's just a remark, the is absolutely no suggestion of oppression or implied sense of inferiority. Stop looking for offense where there is none. The sooner we dispense with these ideas, the sooner we finalise true equality-- look at the remark as being a person to a person, disregard gender (neo-feminism I'm looking at you now, feminism in an equal society - for example America and the UK - only serve to create gaps, ergo, inequality).

lim_ak
lim_ak

 @Billcimus The phrase with "she" is somewhat more prevalent in the gaming community. If it was a rarity I might agree with you, there's a certain ridiculousness that gamers can be identified by looks alone. It was a throw away remark by that person, absolutely and they probably didn't even think anything of it. But that's the point, it's ingrained into some parts gaming culture that it does just reinforce the concept that gaming is just a boys club and women that try to enter should be treated with suspicion.

Billcimus
Billcimus

 @lim_ak I, as a PC gamer, have honestly not had this experience at all-- in MMOs the communities are of vastly varied individuals. In all the - many - guilds I have been in (WoW, LotRO, TOR..) every person has been treated on their own merits; if they happen to act as a good person or an idiot, they are treated as such, irrelevant of description (race, gender, sexual orientation). Then, I do choose to surround myself with as many intelligent and open-minded people as possible. If one is going to play open game servers (where there is no way to pick who you play with)-- one would expect to meet close-minded persons-- uneducated, xenophobic, racist, sexist morons. My point is I really think it isn't a problem of 'organised sexism', more the case that there is an abundance of idiotic peasants who don't know any better than to insult anything that doesn't fit into their standard spoon-fed blinkered view of the world. People like this offend nearly everyone they meet, with the exception of like-morons who speak the same language of grunts. Dismiss them as idiots; they have no agenda, being too stupid to understand what an agenda is.

rollerloller
rollerloller like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Billcimus This new feminism was never about equality. It is just like any other political ideology that serves the interests of only those that push it.

gufberg
gufberg like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Billcimus I'm continuously in awe at the intellect being displayed here. I never suspected to find this on gamespot .. But then im probably only saying that because i agree so completely with your point.Neo-feminism is indeed reinforcing gender inequality and not fighting it. I think many modern (neo) feminists actually have a vested interest in this. They like to highlight themselves and put themselves in the center of attention. I suspect it is a female ego thing... Its ofcourse just my own theory. I could be completely wrong. 

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